Re: Disk I/O IDE Session Log

[Max Scane <mjs...@gmail.com>]

I have the resistors out and the drives strapped as master.

The WD drives I have connected don't seem to respond at all so it
would seem to be an interface issue but it is strange that other
drives work ok. I think I will have to build an IDE break-out board so
I can get to all the signals.

Andrew, in the formatter and the CBIOS you have used an LBA offset of
0xfc00 for the second 8MB partition.  My maths might be wrong but
isn't that the third?

Regards,

Max



On Feb 11, 9:18 am, "Andrew Lynch" <lyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: n8...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Max Scane
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 6:29 AM
> > To: N8VEM
> > Subject: [N8VEM: 2469] Re: Disk I/O IDE Session Log
>
> > Some interesting testing tonight.  I have tried a number of drives
> > with varying success:
>
> > Some drives appear to be unresponsive ie. you can't read the status
> > register (0x27) and get a proper status value
> > The Western Digital drives I tried seemed to be the worst.  I tried a
> > couple of Seagate drives and I managed to spin them up and down
> > correctly using the spin/up/down command in the command register.
> > However they were old and did not support LBA mode so they would not
> > work with the CBIOS.
>
> [AJL>]
> Hi Max!  Thanks!  Is that with or without the R1, R2, and/or R3 resistors?
> The WD drives may require the CSEL pulled high.
>
> > I found an old Quantum Lightening 340 MB drive  (ex Compaq spare) and
> > to my surprise it formatted and I can read/write to it no problems.  I
> > PIP'd some data to it and assembled a file without any problems.
>
> [AJL>]
> That is a bit surprising.  I wonder why it works well when other more recent
> drives do not?
>
> > Running a scope over the drive interface connector the only thing I
> > can see that maybe an issue is that the /DIOR and /DIOW signals are
> > not qualified by the Chip Select signals and seem to be straight off
> > the buffer (U10).  I don't know if that is an issue or not but maybe
> > it is something to try out at some stage.
>
> [AJL>]
>
> /RD and /WR qualified with /IORQ are available on the Disk IO board (/IOR
> and /IOW) since I use them on the FDC portion.  You'd have to make cuts and
> jumpers to test this theory so I would run with the resistors and software
> modifications first.  It is possible there are timing issues but most drives
> are quite timing tolerant since they cannot predict the environment in which
> they will be installed.  Also, devices tend to ignore signals on the inputs
> until chip selects are pulled which can reduce the effect of timing issues.
> Whether an input is high or low on a tristated input pin makes little
> difference.  Once the device is selected though and considers the input then
> it really matters.  Subtle timing issues could plague certain drives.
>
>
>
> > As a quick check use the monitor to read the status register after
> > power on:
>
> > >i
> > 27 50
>
> > Bit 7 is the busy bit which should be clear after the drive has done
> > its  self test
> > Bit 6 is the Device Ready bit which should be set to indicate it is
> > ready to accept commands
> > Bit 4 is undefined in my documentation
>
> > If you don't get not busy and device ready then you will not be able
> > to talk to the drive and there is no point proceeding.
> > If that is ok you can proceed to try the formatter (assuming the drive
> > you are using supports LBA).
>
> > Regards,
>
> > Max
>
> [AJL>]
>
> I very much appreciate the excellent work you are doing to investigate the
> Disk IO compatibility issues!  Thanks and have a nice day!
>
> Andrew Lynch
>
> > On Feb 9, 9:37 pm, "Andrew Lynch" <lyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > Hi Rich!  Thanks!
>
> > > I would start with the TP-IDE series of programs and try to determine
> > what
> > > is working and what is not.  My prototype system and N8VEM SBC are 4MHz
> > > systems and I believe there may be timing loops in the IDE software.
> >  Are
> > > you also running at 4MHz?
>
> > > Obviously some thing is working but there is some problem which is
> > causing
> > > incompatibility.  It will just take some time to work out where the
> > problem
> > > is and fix it.  There is without doubt sensitivities based on what sort
> > of
> > > drive is used.  I used the Seagate throughout testing and the CBIOS
> > probably
> > > reflects that particular model.
>
> > > Thanks and have a nice day!
>
> > > Andrew Lynch
>
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: n8...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
> > Of
> > > > Rich Camarda
> > > > Sent: Monday, February 09, 2009 12:54 AM
> > > > To: N8VEM
> > > > Subject: [N8VEM: 2458] Re: Disk I/O IDE Session Log
>
> > > > Hi Andrew,
>
> > > > Well, not good news. The CF drive does not work again, and it
> > > > especially gets fouled up if I use the FMTPART2 program. If I format
> > > > the card on another system (the P112) I can then read it on the DiskIO
> > > > board ONLY if the power is not applied to the CF adapter (???).
> > > > Further reading and writing seems to have it unreadavble again. Also I
> > > > formatted a Seagate drive on the P112 and then was able to at least
> > > > log onto drive C: and could SAVE a file and ERA it. However anytime I
> > > > try to PIP a file to the C: drive I get the error "Can not close
> > > > File". If I use the FMTPART2 program I get no errors, but then I can
> > > > not erase or save files and the directorty seems corrupted.
>
> > > > Anyway, I am tired and better get to sleep before I mess things up
> > > > more. Anybody have ideas? I am thinking the LBA BIOS is not working as
> > > > it seems to act different with different drives, or there is a
> > > > hradware/timimg issue???
>
> > > > Rich
>
> > > > On Feb 8, 7:22 pm, "Andrew Lynch" <lyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > Hi Rich!  Well, you are personally responsible for a 50% increase in
> > the
> > > > > number of devices that work with the Disk IO board!  That's three!
> > > >  Yahoo!
>
> > > > > So far, that's 2 CF devices and 1 hard drive.  I am sure they'll be
> > more
> > > > > soon.
>
> > > > > Thanks and have a nice day!
>
> > > > > Andrew Lynch
>
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: n8...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8...@googlegroups.com] On
> > Behalf
> > > > Of
> > > > > > Rich Camarda
> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 10:09 PM
> > > > > > To: N8VEM
> > > > > > Subject: [N8VEM: 2454] Re: Disk I/O IDE Session Log
>
> > > > > > Ok, here is an interesting thing! I just put a 128 MB CF card on
> > to
> > > > > > try it again and I forgot to plug in the power cable to the CF
> > > > > > adapter, Guess what? Without power the CF card works great! It
> > comes
> > > > > > up as the C: drive and I was able to PIP all files from the F:
> > drive
> > > > > > and it worked fine. All files readable and working. I think you
> > may
> > > > > > have something there with the resistors!
>
> > > > > > Someone else should try this with their CF adapter.
>
> > > > > > Rich
>
> > > > > > On Feb 8, 6:57 pm, "Andrew Lynch" <lyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > And the heavens opened, the sun shone brightly, and angels began
> > to
> > > > > > sing.
>
> > > > > > > After the long, dark, and frustrating history of the Disk IO
> > board,
> > > > it
> > > > > > is
> > > > > > > such a great relief to hear someone, ANYONE, has gotten some
> > success
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > it.  I think we are on the road to a useful part.
>
> > > > > > > Thanks Max, you made my day!
>
> > > > > > > Now, back to the bug hunting; I confirmed the Disk IO hardware
> > > > prototype
> > > > > > did
> > > > > > > have the pull up/pull down resistors at one point but the IDE
> > > > connector
> > > > > > > itself now shows pins 21, 29, and 28 are NO CONNECTION.
>
> > > > > > > It is entirely possible that the presence of resistors R1, R2,
> > and
> > > > R3
> > > > > > *may*
> > > > > > > have a detrimental effect on the operation of your Disk IO
> > board.  I
> > > > say
> > > > > > > *may* because apparently I had to remove them to get it to work
> > > > during
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > prototyping phase.  So there is another data point.  Try pulling
> > R1,
> > > > R2,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > R3, and see if that doesn't improve the situation.
>
> > > > > > > Thanks and have a nice day!
>
> > > > > > > Andrew Lynch
>
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: n8...@googlegroups.com [mailto:n8...@googlegroups.com]
> > On
> > > > Behalf
> > > > > > Of
> > > > > > > > Max Scane
> > > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2009 7:10 PM
> > > > > > > > To: N8VEM
> > > > > > > > Subject: [N8VEM: 2449] Re: Disk I/O IDE Session Log
>
> > > > > > > > I'm having similar problems as well.  However, I have been
> > able to
> > > > get
> > > > > > > > it to work on a 512 MB Compact flash.
>
> > > > > > > > A couple of things you need to do.
>
> > > > > > > > 1. The drive must support LBA addressing.  If the drive is of
> > an
> > > > older
> > > > > > > > variety and only supports C/H/S it won't work.
> > > > > > > > 2. The drive must be strapped as master and not slave.
> > > > > > > > 3. You need to sucessfully get the formatter to run.  In my
> > case
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > formatter ran ok on the CF card and I couild then access it
> > via
> > > > the c:
> > > > > > > > drive.
>
> > > > > > > > On a couple of drives the fromatter comes up and says error.
> >  I
> > > > will
> > > > > > > > see if I can modify it to provide a bit more error detail.
>
> > > > > > > > I am going to have another go at it tonight and see what I can
> > > > find.
>
> > > > > > > > Regards,
>
> > > > > > > > Max
>
> > > > > > > > On Feb 9, 10:14 am, Rich Camarda <rcam...@aol.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > Hi Andrew,
>
> > > > > > > > > Yes, actually I did use the Drive ID section of the program
> > and
> > > > it
> > > > > > > > > works fine. FYI for ohers, The memory location it  writes
> > the
> > > > drive
> > > > > > > > > info is at 0318. I used the monitor to do a Dump and read
> > the
> > > > ASCII
> > > > > > > > > info. It ID'd all lthe drives with no problem. I do believe
> > the
> > > > > > > > > comunication with the drive is working. I will check out
> > some
> > > > other
> > > > > > > > > things and see if I have any luck.
>
> > > > > > > > > Thanks,
>
> > > > > > > > > Rich
>
> > > > > > > > > On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Andrew Lynch" <lyn...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > Hi Rich!  Thanks!
>
> ...
>
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