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Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #487] Thu, 14 April 2016 19:56 Go to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Hi all,

Can I get someone to send me a set of the 22V10 GALs for the KISS-68030 board? The programmer I have claims to support the 22V10, but it fails every time. I did get the 16V8 to program successfully, however. I can cover your costs plus shipping via PayPal, or send you some of the chips I have on hand to be programmed.

Thanks!
Alex

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #488 is a reply to message #487] Thu, 14 April 2016 21:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jcoffman is currently offline  jcoffman
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Alex,

As long as you have 22v10-7 chips, I can program them for you for the cost of postage. I would suggest you send the three 22v10's & the 16v8, just to be sure. That way I can put them in a board to have absolute assurance they are good.

Contact me off the Forum to make arrangements.

John C.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #489 is a reply to message #488] Fri, 15 April 2016 03:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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Which programmer are you using?

I used a TL866 to program my GALs. I had to use the Windows software since the open-source Linux software does not support GALs (as far as I can tell).

I also got a "FAIL" on every programming -- however I then realised that this was a false result! The GAL was being programmed with the "protect" fuse set. This bit prevents the design from being read back out again. This in turn causes the verify step of the programming operation to fail, even if the design has been correctly programmed.

So the solutions are;
- Leave the "protect" fuse set, you cannot verify the design but it is probably programmed correctly.
- Turn the "protect" fuse off, you can verify the design and confirm it is programmed correctly.

Turning off the "protect" fuse should not be an issue since the programmed design is open source and freely available anyway!

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #490 is a reply to message #489] Fri, 15 April 2016 06:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rhkoolstar is currently online  rhkoolstar
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Hmmm, I am using "minipro version 0.1 A free and open TL866XX programmer" under Linux


minipro -l | grep GAL
GAL16V8
GAL16V8 @SOIC20
GAL16V8A
GAL16V8A @SOIC20
GAL16V8B
GAL16V8B @SOIC20
GAL16V8C
GAL16V8C @SOIC20
GAL16V8D
GAL16V8D @SOIC20
GAL20V8
GAL20V8A
GAL20V8B
GAL20V8C
GAL20V8D
GAL22V10
GAL22V10 @SOIC24
GAL22V10B
GAL22V10B @SOIC24
GAL22V10C
GAL22V10C @SOIC24
GAL22V10D
GAL22V10D @SOIC24

I never programmed GALs, but they seem to be in the "supported devices" list

Be well, RHK

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #491 is a reply to message #490] Fri, 15 April 2016 06:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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That is exactly the software and hardware I also use for programming flash ROMs. I could not get it to program GALs successfully, essentially I could not figure out what input format the minipro tool expected. In the end I installed Windows in a virtual machine, allowed it access to the USB device, and used the Windows TL866 software to program the GALs. I would prefer to do it with "minipro" but for a one-off task this method sufficed.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #492 is a reply to message #491] Fri, 15 April 2016 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Hmm, I am also using a TL866 with the Windows software. I will give it another shot. I'm pretty sure I have tried all combinations of the "encrypt" and "lock" boxes checked or unchecked. The ATF22V10C-7 chips fail at verifying address 0, and the GAL22V10B-10 chips fail at address 32. After some reading, it seems that the Atmel chips just aren't supported by this programmer, and the failure at address 32 is a common problem with the Lattice chips. Interesting that yours worked... I need to get a working programming setup in some form since I have other boards to build that will also need 22V10 chips.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #493 is a reply to message #492] Fri, 15 April 2016 07:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gkaufman is currently offline  gkaufman
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I have a TL866 and was never able to get it to correctly program Lattice 22V10's under Windows (despite being on their supported devices list).

I use one of the older Needham EMP programmers for GAL's.

Likewise I'd also be happy to program them for you, although I don't have the 68030 board to test them in.

- Gary

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #494 is a reply to message #493] Fri, 15 April 2016 07:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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I had actually looked into the Needham programmer after reading some success stories about that online. The problem is, none of the used ones available seem to come with the little cards that configure the programmer for different chips. I might just end up having someone program a set of 22V10 for me while I wait for one of these to come from China: http://www.ebay.com/itm/USB-G540-Universal-Bios-GAL-Programm er-EPROM-FLASH-51-AVR-PIC-MCU-SPI-B0206-/272049424620?hash=i tem3f5768c8ec:g:KPYAAOxyRhBSvH0j

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #495 is a reply to message #494] Fri, 15 April 2016 08:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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>Hmm, I am also using a TL866 with the Windows software

I will have a look and see if I still have the VM I used around. If so I'll take a screenshot of how I have it configured.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #496 is a reply to message #495] Fri, 15 April 2016 08:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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Yep, I still have it.

I am using the Windows software "MiniPro v5.91" which shipped with my TL866.

Instructions:

  1. Connect the TL866 to the USB port
  2. Insert the GAL22V10C in the ZIF socket, pin 1 closest to the ZIF socket lever.
  3. Run the "minipro.exe" program
  4. From the "Search" menu, pick "Search and select IC"
  5. Enter "GAL22V10C" and select "GAL22V10C" from the list on the right, then click "Select"
  6. From the "File" menu, select "Open".
  7. Choose the *.JED file to program (eg "HIGH93.JED")
  8. Options on the lower left: Erase before YES, Verify after YES, blank check NO, SetRange ALL. "Encrypt ch" is set to YES (I have no idea what this means). VPP voltage 16.00V.
  9. From the "Device" menu, select "Program"
  10. In the "Chip program" window, UNTICK the "LOCK bit". Only "CODE memory" should be ticked.
  11. Click "Program" button. Confirm "Programming successful!" appears.
  12. Click "Cancel" to close that window
  13. From the "Device" menu, select "Verify"
  14. In the "Chip Verify" window, click the "Verify" button. Confirm "Verify succesful!" appears.
  15. Click "Cancel" to close that window
  16. Swap the GAL chip for the next one, load the next .JED file, repeat.

Hope this helps!

http://sowerbutts.com/tmp/gal-programming.png

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #497 is a reply to message #496] Fri, 15 April 2016 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Thanks for the info. I will try those exact steps tonight and report back on if it works for me.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #498 is a reply to message #497] Fri, 15 April 2016 09:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gkaufman is currently offline  gkaufman
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Reproducing those steps with the TL866A, (except my software version is V6.17) results in verify errors.

If I verify a GAL that was programmed in the Needham's programmer they read correctly.

Are you using Lattice parts? My recollection is that other brands may work better with the MiniPRO.

It is also true that the Needham's programmers rarely include the required "SIMM" cards. They do show up occasionally. Fortunately I purchased my original programmer when Needham's was still in business (the current "Needhams" isn't really the same company from what I can tell).

John Monahan has a nice introduction to GAL's at http://s100computers.com/Software%20Folder/GALs/Intro%20To%2 0GALs.htm and reports good success with the Wellon VP-290

- Gary

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #499 is a reply to message #487] Fri, 15 April 2016 09:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Has anyone tried the second circuit described here? http://www.bhabbott.net.nz/atfblast.html
Seems like it would be quick and easy to set up on a breadboard.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #500 is a reply to message #499] Fri, 15 April 2016 10:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gkaufman is currently offline  gkaufman
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David Fry did a run of the GAL programmer boards a while ago.

Look at http://www.s100computers.com/N8VEM_Archive/msg00683.html

Unfortunately the links to his files are gone when the Wiki moved, but I'm sure David would email them to you (or perhaps they could be uploaded to the current site?).

- Gary

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #501 is a reply to message #500] Fri, 15 April 2016 10:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Thanks, I will check that out as well. I'll need to figure something out as it seems like GALs are a regular occurrence on the new S100 boards coming out.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #502 is a reply to message #501] Fri, 15 April 2016 10:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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Quick note - I am actually using a TL866A (the model with the 6-pin header on the end for in-system programming of some parts)

I am using Lattice GALs, the datecode (oddly it is on the underside of the chip) indicates 1996/1997 fabrication.

[Updated on: Fri, 15 April 2016 10:33]

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #503 is a reply to message #502] Fri, 15 April 2016 12:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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Well, I broke down and just ordered a Wellon VP-390 since others have reported success with those and the 290. It will get plenty of use with all the projects I tend to get myself into. It seems to be easier to find the Atmel 22V10 than other brands and my current programmer doesn't even claim to be compatible with those... I will still try out the parallel port programmer just for laughs and report back. Thanks for all the info, guys.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #504 is a reply to message #502] Fri, 15 April 2016 14:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew B is currently offline  Andrew B
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Re-posting the following from John C. (sent in an email, but I think it was intended to go to the forum):

Quote:

I've moved from a Willem programmer to a Genius G840 in order to program GALs, both Lattice and Atmel. No trouble with any of the parts. My complaint about the G840 is no s/w support with Linux. Running the Stager s/w in a Windoze virtual box works for programming Flash chips, but operations in the Virtual Box are sluggish in the extreme. This is not an issue with GALs, but is a serious problem with large Flash chips.

I hope the issue with the TL866 programming GALs can be resolved for you.


The Lattice GALs have been EOLed by Lattice and are no longer being produced. Atmel is the only company still making GALs (and 5V CPLDs as well).

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #505 is a reply to message #503] Fri, 15 April 2016 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jcoffman is currently offline  jcoffman
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For what it's worth: I tried programming Lattice GAL22v10c - G840 reports Vpp of 13.70 volts. Same try with Atmel ATF22v10BL - programmer reports Vpp of 12.00 volts. Somewhat at odds with Will's output earlier.

Programming sequence is Erase, Blank Check, Program, Verify, Encrypt (5 steps). An attempt to Verify once again results in an error; hence, a design cannot be stolen.

--John

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #506 is a reply to message #503] Fri, 15 April 2016 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rhkoolstar is currently online  rhkoolstar
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I am dealing with this company in Germany. http://www.kessler-electronic.de/ They stock lattice GALs. I don't know if they are expensive or not, but you might want to check it out. (Time for babelfish Smile

Be well, RHK

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #507 is a reply to message #506] Fri, 15 April 2016 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew B is currently offline  Andrew B
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Jameco still has Lattice GALs in the US, but as with anything that has been discontinued, supply may dry up soon.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #508 is a reply to message #500] Sat, 16 April 2016 10:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew B is currently offline  Andrew B
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gkaufman wrote on Fri, 15 April 2016 10:06
David Fry did a run of the GAL programmer boards a while ago.

Look at http://www.s100computers.com/N8VEM_Archive/msg00683.html

Unfortunately the links to his files are gone when the Wiki moved, but I'm sure David would email them to you (or perhaps they could be uploaded to the current site?).

- Gary


Everything is in the pbwiki archive and the Google Custom Search page that I setup (link on the left side of the new wiki) works great for finding things like this!

Here is the archive page for the Simple GAL Programmer - https://retrobrewcomputers.org/n8vem-pbwiki-archive/0/358453 34/38282303/95749082/index.htm - setting up a page for it on the new wiki would be good.

And searching for 'Simple GAL Programmer' also turned up this great PDF document that Neil Breeden wrote - https://retrobrewcomputers.org/n8vem-pbwiki-archive/0/821525 89/Programmable%20logic%20devices%20-%20v1.6.pdf

(Maybe it's time to add a 'references' section to the new Wiki in addition to the board designs/board software)

Edit: Also I think it's important to note that the programming algorithm for the Atmel ATF chips is different from the Lattice GALs. It's not clear to me if the same .jed fuse map files can be programmed to either chip or if those are different as well.

I dug out my TOP853 programmer, but it turns out it won't program 22V10's of any brand, so I'm going to have to get something else to make new GALs for the SBC6120-RBC.

[Updated on: Sat, 16 April 2016 10:19]

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #519 is a reply to message #508] Mon, 18 April 2016 05:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gkaufman is currently offline  gkaufman
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Do you want me to program a few and get them off to you? I have a good pile of 22V10's here.

- Gary

Andrew B wrote on Sat, 16 April 2016 10:10
...
I dug out my TOP853 programmer, but it turns out it won't program 22V10's of any brand, so I'm going to have to get something else to make new GALs for the SBC6120-RBC.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #525 is a reply to message #487] Tue, 19 April 2016 07:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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I'm happy to report that my Wellon VP-390 arrived last night and programmed my Atmel 22V10 chips without issue. I let the KISS-68030 memory test run overnight, and after setting it to 1 DRAM wait state, it did 300+ passes without error. Thanks again to all who offered to program chips for me, but I'm all set now!

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #526 is a reply to message #525] Tue, 19 April 2016 07:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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Ah - congratulations!

May I ask if you used 74F195A for U403, or some other part eg 74F195?

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #527 is a reply to message #526] Tue, 19 April 2016 07:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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will wrote on Tue, 19 April 2016 08:16
Ah - congratulations!

May I ask if you used 74F195A for U403, or some other part eg 74F195?


It was a 74F195AN from UTSource on eBay. I was surprised when it came up and started running the memory test without issue on first powerup. It actually passed a few times at 0WS before it started failing. Changing it to 1WS cleared that right up.

I know there has been discussion of what capacitors to use as well, so for the record I'm using 470uF "solid" electrolytic caps for C901, C928, and C929, a 220uF regular electrolytic from my junk box for C930 since the 470's didn't fit there, and .1uF bypass caps. Also used the tantalum caps where recommended by the latest BOM.

On a side note, is there a Linux driver for the 4UART board yet? I'm anxious to get a SLIP or PPP link up on this thing... If there is not a driver yet, I'll start hacking away at that. I'm not the greatest programmer in the world, but can probably manage Smile

Thanks,
Alex

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #528 is a reply to message #527] Tue, 19 April 2016 07:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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My 4UART board is not yet assembled so I've not written a driver for it yet.

If you tell me the base address and interrupt numbers you have configured your 4UART for I will write up a special kernel for you that you can test. Telling the kernel where to find the additional UARTs is not too hard.

[Updated on: Tue, 19 April 2016 07:40]

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #529 is a reply to message #528] Tue, 19 April 2016 07:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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will wrote on Tue, 19 April 2016 08:39
My 4UART board is not yet assembled so I've not written a driver for it yet.

If you tell me the base address and interrupt numbers you have configured your 4UART for I will write up a special kernel for you that you can test. Telling the kernel where to find the additional UARTs is not too hard.


I've not yet actually installed the jumpers yet, but the board is assembled. I will configure whatever you choose since you're far more experienced than I with Linux on the KISS board. Certainly willing to be a guinea pig for your kernel. My system at this point just consists of the CPU board and MF-PIC board.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #530 is a reply to message #529] Tue, 19 April 2016 08:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
will is currently offline  will
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OK, I assume you have your MF/PIC jumpered for address 0x40. You will need to modify your MF/PIC slightly in order to enable the IDE interrupt. This is required by the Linux MF/PIC IDE driver. Instructions to do so may be found here. It's a simple modification.

I am planning to configure my 4UART board at base I/O address 0xC0, and IRQs 1, 2, 3, 4.

I will have a look at modifying the kernel for you over the next few days. I can also supply an updated userspace with faster boot, pppd etc.

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Re: Can I get some programmed GALs? [message #531 is a reply to message #530] Tue, 19 April 2016 08:48 Go to previous message
ab0tj is currently offline  ab0tj
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will wrote on Tue, 19 April 2016 09:34
OK, I assume you have your MF/PIC jumpered for address 0x40. You will need to modify your MF/PIC slightly in order to enable the IDE interrupt. This is required by the Linux MF/PIC IDE driver. Instructions to do so may be found here. It's a simple modification.

I am planning to configure my 4UART board at base I/O address 0xC0, and IRQs 1, 2, 3, 4.

I will have a look at modifying the kernel for you over the next few days. I can also supply an updated userspace with faster boot, pppd etc.


Yes, the MF/PIC is at 0x40. I did the IDE modification as part of building it, so we're set there. If you have patches for the kernel, can I get those too? I will probably want to compile my own at some point with support for SLIP... I'd like to experiment with using an ESP8266 module for WiFi connectivity, which seems to have firmware available that does SLIP but not PPP. Thanks!

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