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| Re: National Semi NS32000 series -- Any interest? [message #7229 is a reply to message #7228] |
Fri, 13 March 2020 13:59   |
Jonas
Messages: 77
Registered: October 2015
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Hi John
I have never done anything with the NS32000-series, but I followed the discussion at this forum about NS32532, NS32CG160 et cetera a few years ago. I actually bought ten NS32CG160 from Utsource and five NS32081 from someone in Poland. Your board (yes, I have read most of the stuff at www.cpu-ns32k.net) is far far beyond my capabilities. I have been looking at the reference design in the datasheet for the NS32CG160 as a starting point. And the software part of this ...?
Despite my lack of knowledge, I would love to build something with a NS32000. The NS32CG160 is available and affordable with several integrated peripherals. A good starting point.
Jonas
[Updated on: Fri, 13 March 2020 14:01] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: National Semi NS32000 series -- Any interest? [message #7236 is a reply to message #7232] |
Sat, 14 March 2020 10:37 |
jcoffman
Messages: 332
Registered: October 2015
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Senior Member |
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The NS32008 CPU is a tempting choice, but it requires the NS32201 TCU (Timing Control Unit). They are both hard to find, and often expensive. The advantage of the '008 is the simplicity of an 8-bit bus. For a major system, the only choice is the '532, but it uses a 32-bit bus. This wide bus in not appropriate for a 'toy' system.
My S-100 system is passe, and I am not considering cannibalizing it. The higher integration 'CG' chips look like a better bet. They are essentially a 32016 with TCU, FPU interface, but no MMU connection ability. The CG160 is tempting, and I have a trial design for a Single Board Computer. With a socket for FPU & UART, the board is out of space for 2 x 512K byte SRAMs.
More recently I have considered a 2-board system using the CG16 with the MF/PIC board providing UART & NVRAM/RTC, PPIDE; interfacing the ICU ('202 Interrupt Contoller) takes a bit of tinkering.
I think the choices are:
1. A 2-board NS32CG16 system with FPU socket, 2 x 512Kb SRAM, and I/O interfacing using the MF/PIC. Form factor stays 100mm x 160mm, RetroBrew traditional size.
2. An SBC (Single Board Computer) using the NS32CG160 with FPU socket, 2 x 512Kb SRAM, UART, NVRAM/RTC, PPIDE. The form factor would expand to 6U, 233mm x 160mm (VME size). With an ECB bus, it would fit the Siemens 505-6508 card cage ( https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l 1313&_nkw=Siemens+6508&_sacat=0 .
Software:
GCC 3.4.6 cross compiler. (No module calls, however). AFAIK, this is the last version of GCC to support the NS32000.
GAS assembler. (It appears to support the Module-call/return instructions)
Complete loader, library, &c. cross support.
At this time, I do not know of an OS to bring up. CP/M-68 is probably adaptable, since it is mostly C-code. However, I would rather support the FAT-16/32 file system.
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| Re: National Semi NS32000 series -- Any interest? [message #7246 is a reply to message #7245] |
Sun, 15 March 2020 07:35 |
plasmo
Messages: 916
Registered: March 2017
Location: New Mexico, USA
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Senior Member |
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If you are comfortable using CPLD, then the design becomes significantly smaller. An ATF1508 have enough logic for DRAM controller and serial EEPROM bootstrap so the design reduce to a 8-pin serial boot flash, CPLD, 1megx16 DRAM and CG160.
If compact flash is used, then it can also boot out of CF and eliminate the 8-bin serial boot flash, which also simplifies the CPLD design as well. Easily fit in 100mm X 100mm pc board with a couple I/O expansion slots.
Bill
[Updated on: Sun, 15 March 2020 07:37] Report message to a moderator |
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| Re: National Semi NS32000 series -- Any interest? [message #7650 is a reply to message #7336] |
Thu, 14 May 2020 20:20 |
jcoffman
Messages: 332
Registered: October 2015
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Senior Member |
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jcoffman wrote on Fri, 27 March 2020 12:10Yes, the NS32016 may be used without the MMU. The SETCFG instruction can indicate that it is absent.
Today, I think I would use the NS32CG16 instead of the NS32016: no TCU is needed.
Since I started this thread a couple of weeks ago I have been honing in on a 32000 design:
1. NS32CG160 -- seemed more popular than the NS32CG16.
2. ECB board size.
3. UART in PLCC44 package.
4. IDE interface - 16-bit.
5. 1meg SRAM; 128k ROM.
6. Interfaced to the ECB bus.
7. The FPU just may fit. This is to be determined.
Well, I am serious enough about a 32000 computer that I have a design in for fab. Two compromises had to be made to achieve the above goodies on the board: SRAM is in TSOP-II or SOP-32 packages (50 mil lead spacing). Probably not too hard to solder; and ROM is reduced to a single chip. The latter requires a DYNAMIC bus sizing GAL, and an increase of one chip from 20 pins to 24 pins (74ALS686). The space gained allowed me to tuck in the NS32181 FPU, and an RTC/NVRAM chip.
CAVEAT: These boards will not be available until I know that most of the goodies are working. Serious shortcuts are take for interfacing to the ECB RetroBrew bus, but the board is designed to work entirely STANDALONE. Hence, the information, as far as it goes, is under https://retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:ns3200 0
--John
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| Re: National Semi NS32000 series -- Any interest? [message #7741 is a reply to message #7399] |
Mon, 01 June 2020 15:19 |
jcoffman
Messages: 332
Registered: October 2015
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Senior Member |
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I've had the NS32000 board in my hands for about 3 weeks now. So far, everything is checking out with one exception. I chose the cheapest SRAM at Digikey; bad mistake. I had to replace the low order SRAM chip, with all the extra wires needed to reconnect the damaged traces and pads. Gruesome!
1. CPU is NS32cg160
2. FPU is NS32181
3. 1Mb SRAM, 128k ROM. I'm doing testing with just 64K in a single 28-pin chip.
4. UART is 16C550A or C.
5. RTC and NVRAM with SuperCap backup.
6. Interface to IDE-16, PIO or DMA. (not yet checked)
7. Stand-alone operation; or ECB bus operation. (I'm using the latter)
8. 25Mhz operation with 74LS logic; 15ns Atmel PLDs.
So far, my only regret is having to use the surface mount SRAM to make room for the FPU. I have a ZIF adapter on order so I can test SRAM before soldering.
Link to the Wiki: https://retrobrewcomputers.org/doku.php?id=boards:sbc:ns3200 0:ns32cg160_1.0#details_of_the_board
--John
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