Home » RBC Forums » General Discussion » MSX2 Compatible Computer Project
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7680 is a reply to message #7673] |
Wed, 20 May 2020 13:08   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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jordi.solis wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:59jdgabbard wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:32
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Hi,
another issue.
Is there possible to compile the tinyBASIC for MSX and load it once C-BIOS started?
I know that N8 Home computer is not an MSX standard computer but he has C-BIOS and BASIC, It could be possible to do anything similar with the OMEGA HOME COMPUTER, when using a c-bios firmware?
let me know.
regards.
It's very possible. Though TB 2.5g (my custom version of TB) is much less feature rich as MSX Basic. Given the capabilities of what the MSX has already, I'm not sure why you'd want to, unless it was to have more user space available. But even then, with the extra routines you'd need to make it useful to the MSX, you probably wouldn't gain much user space once you factored in the way you program TB versus MSX basic.
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7681 is a reply to message #7672] |
Wed, 20 May 2020 13:13   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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jordi.solis wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:53jdgabbard wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:32oard down to all of the pieces (to align it), then making small tacks with some spare filament and a dedicated soldering iron tip. Once these tacks are in place you can either weld it with a 3d pen, or use epoxy. Then sand smooth, primer, and paint.
Of course to me, this sounds more aligned, beauty result and clear plan. we can also my do my suggestion leaving more slack between the pieces, to permit alignment, then glue, sand and paint.
Regards.
I don't normally add space between the parts, just sand them down to fit properly. But it can be done. I also sent to chamfer the edges with a 0.75mm edge to get a good weld. It's a lot like welding steel. It gives you a good strong bead that you can sand down flush with careful work of a Drexel.
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7717 is a reply to message #7687] |
Wed, 27 May 2020 14:50   |
Sergey
Messages: 236 Registered: October 2015 Location: Portland, OR
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jordi.solis wrote on Sat, 23 May 2020 04:47
With a PAL bios some games like IKARI are shown wrong and some like Aleste are slow even playing music.
Does it mean the PAL circuit of my Omega runs as should but I don't have a PAL TV or maybe anything connected to RGB is not "PAL".
PAL BIOS configures VDP for 50 Hz refresh rate, while NTSC BIOS configures VDP for 60 Hz. This happens regardless of JP5 and JP6 jumper settings. These jumpers only switch the timing and the video output standard for the CXA1645 encoder, and I think they only impact the S-Video and composite video, not the RGB. (By the way, you wrote JP3 and JP4. I assume it is a mistake. These jumpers have nothing to do with PAL or NTSC. They select between V9938 and V9958 and must match the VDP, or bad things will happen).
On each screen refresh VDP generates an interrupt, and that interrupt is commonly used for synchronization. So if you run a game designed to work with 60 Hz NTSC system, it will appear to be sluggish on 50 Hz PAL system. And vice versa, if you run PAL game on NTSC, it will appear to run faster.
[Updated on: Wed, 27 May 2020 14:53] Report message to a moderator
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7719 is a reply to message #7687] |
Thu, 28 May 2020 02:16   |
bifo
Messages: 48 Registered: October 2019
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jordi.solis wrote on Sat, 23 May 2020 04:47I hope someone can help me.
I don't have a PAL monitor (neither a NTSC one).
At the beginning I tested the Omega with NTSC configuration and a composite to SCART cable connected to a standard LED TV.
Then I changed the configuration on the board and tested it with PAL, but nothing was displayed on TV.
After that I knowed that the RGB connection was actually better image and built a cable from DIN-8 to SCART.
Then I was able to display images even if PAL or NTSC configuration was implemented.
following the Sergey instructions some components must be removed, replaced and some jumpers must be swapped.
Ok,
Now I would like to know how it works in deep, because even if I left JP3-JP4 in any possition, even if I left all the components like Y3 installed, and even if left R9 and C91 in old values, I can display images everytime on my TV and just the BIOS kind switches what is the working speed.
With a PAL bios some games like IKARI are shown wrong and some like Aleste are slow even playing music.
Does it mean the PAL circuit of my Omega runs as should but I don't have a PAL TV or maybe anything connected to RGB is not "PAL".
To leave my building instructions as clear as possible I would prefer everyone soldering all the components what don't disturb.
regards
I know that the little LCD screen I purchased a while ago for project work with composite input is auto-switching between PAL and NTSC frequencies, it's possible that the screen you're using isn't one that switches automatically? Or if the game's programming relies on timing from the NTSC side of things and setting the timing to PAL causes it to stumble, since they're both japanese (NTSC) games.
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7746 is a reply to message #7717] |
Thu, 04 June 2020 01:42   |
jordi.solis
Messages: 119 Registered: March 2017
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Sergey wrote on Wed, 27 May 2020 23:50
PAL BIOS configures VDP for 50 Hz refresh rate, while NTSC BIOS configures VDP for 60 Hz. This happens regardless of JP5 and JP6 jumper settings. These jumpers only switch the timing and the video output standard for the CXA1645 encoder, and I think they only impact the S-Video and composite video, not the RGB. (By the way, you wrote JP3 and JP4. I assume it is a mistake. These jumpers have nothing to do with PAL or NTSC. They select between V9938 and V9958 and must match the VDP, or bad things will happen).
On each screen refresh VDP generates an interrupt, and that interrupt is commonly used for synchronization. So if you run a game designed to work with 60 Hz NTSC system, it will appear to be sluggish on 50 Hz PAL system. And vice versa, if you run PAL game on NTSC, it will appear to run faster.
Thanks for your answer.
For some reason I have stopped receiving response notifications to this forum in my email account, so until today I did not know that you responded to me.
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7896 is a reply to message #4137] |
Tue, 04 August 2020 18:24   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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Sergey,
I finally got all my parts together, and installed in the Omega. But I'm having a few issues with the keyboard.
Mainboard version is 1.1, and Keyboard is version 1.0. The only parts not installed on the keyboard are the resistor network, and D1 power LED. RR7 on the mainboard is present. However, I'm getting weird functioning when I press keys on the keyboard. When I press '0' the screen displays '08', when I press space it displays '0 <space> *' occasionally the Code LED lights up randomly.
Any pointers?
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7897 is a reply to message #7896] |
Wed, 05 August 2020 15:50   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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Disregard. I had misunderstood the directions. I thought the Keyboard RN1 had been removed and moved over to the PCB on Mainboard v1.1. However, I then realized that it was still needed. All works great now, and runing MSX2+_int_NTSC flawlessly.
Now if only my SD-512 that I dumped quite a bit on several years ago actually worked, I'd be in heaven.
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7898 is a reply to message #7686] |
Sat, 08 August 2020 07:32   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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jordi.solis wrote on Sat, 23 May 2020 04:19If someone want to know it I added an F4/FMPAC to my Omega computer and now some games sound actually nice.
As I would like to save the cartridge slots I didn't added the eprom chip to this board and just added the binary file to the current OMEGA firmware.
It just need to connect +-12v power source to JP1 on FMPAC board, and AMP/GND connection to pin 2,4 of U48 in the Omega motherboard.
Now Aleste sounds fantastic but a little bit low.
I will try to decrease the value for resistor R4 on the FMPAC board and let you know (I discovered the schematic shows 4k7 but the silkscreen 2k2)
regads
J S

Jordi,
Since I got my Omega running the other day I got to thinking about the FM-PAC. And it may be easy to simplify the design further, omitting the +12v rail. Looking at the schematic, it appears that it's only needed for the amplifier. But other designs for computers often use just a 5v rail, such as with the schematic below. Of course, it would need a few changes, such as the 10uF cap and 4.7k resistor to be tied into the Omega's audio circuit. But that is trivial. Have you though about this?
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7912 is a reply to message #7900] |
Thu, 13 August 2020 06:39   |
jdgabbard
Messages: 76 Registered: March 2016
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bifo wrote on Sun, 09 August 2020 06:43jdgabbard wrote on Wed, 05 August 2020 15:50Disregard. I had misunderstood the directions. I thought the Keyboard RN1 had been removed and moved over to the PCB on Mainboard v1.1. However, I then realized that it was still needed. All works great now, and runing MSX2+_int_NTSC flawlessly.
Now if only my SD-512 that I dumped quite a bit on several years ago actually worked, I'd be in heaven.
Does your SD-512 itself not work or have you found a compatibility issue with it and the Omega? I've got one and haven't tried it yet, but I had wondered how it would interact with the onboard memory map and how it tries to run NEXTOR.
It works now. I bought it about two years ago, when I only had a MSX-1. And it was supposed to only give limited functionality, so I could never test it. But highly suspected something was wrong, because it tried to boot Nextor once, but then failed. And it never did this again. When I tried it in the Omega it wouldn't work. So I did some probing around and discovered the ROM's D0 line wasn't soldered on the socket. A fine tip iron fixed the problem.
I'm now running nextor 2.1 DOS 2, and have full access to the file system as well as the MegaRAM. It doesn't appear to show the 512k when in Mapper Mode. But the MegaRAM functions fine. Sofa run works great. I haven't tried SymbOS, so I'm not sure about that.
Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7916 is a reply to message #7898] |
Tue, 18 August 2020 19:04   |
jordi.solis
Messages: 119 Registered: March 2017
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Senior Member |
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jdgabbard wrote on Sat, 08 August 2020 16:32
Jordi,
Since I got my Omega running the other day I got to thinking about the FM-PAC. And it may be easy to simplify the design further, omitting the +12v rail. Looking at the schematic, it appears that it's only needed for the amplifier. But other designs for computers often use just a 5v rail, such as with the schematic below. Of course, it would need a few changes, such as the 10uF cap and 4.7k resistor to be tied into the Omega's audio circuit. But that is trivial. Have you though about this?

Hi Doug.
Thank you for your suggestion.
Forgive my ignorance, but what I understand according to the diagram you show me is that we can use 5v operational amplifiers and not 12v, is that correct?
As for the resistor and the capacitor, I see that they are connected in a different way than the FMPAC scheme does. it's correct? I don't know how to calculate their values.
I was working on reducing the scheme with a GAL as Sergey suggested but I discovered that I did not know as much about the GAL as I thought, I am not sure I have enough knowledge to transform the information Sergey gave me into a JED file.
This is the configuration that Sergey suggested:
; FM chip select; FM I / O ports - 0x7C and 0x7D
/ FMCS = / IORQ * M1 * / A7 * A6 * A5 * A5 * A3 * A2 * A1
; F4 port write - 0xF4 (connect to 74LS74 CLK)
/ F4WR = / IORQ * M1 * A7 * A6 * A5 * A5 * / A3 * A2 * / A1 * A0 * / WR
; FM port read - 0xF4 (connect to SPLD OE pin 11)
/ F4RD = / IORQ * M1 * A7 * A6 * A5 * A4 * / A3 * A2 * / A1 * A0 * / RD
; F4 register output (connect D7 to D7 of cartridge, connect F4_Q to 74LS74 Q output)
D7.T = / F4RD * F4_Q
I have detected that he has repeated * A5 instead of A4 and I am no longer sure what his intention was.
It would be very nice not to have to use the 12v power supply.
The audio output of my FMPAC connects to the motherboard's op amp through a resistor and capacitor in series, I don't know how to calculate the correct value in the circuit you show.
Regards.
J S
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7917 is a reply to message #7916] |
Wed, 19 August 2020 02:23   |
kman
Messages: 45 Registered: February 2019 Location: Germany
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I would suggest to use the LMV258 as replacement for the TL072, because the latter one is not specified for +5V single supply operation nor is the output voltage swing symmetric. The LMV258 can operate fron +2.7V... +5V5 and it's out swing is rail-to-rail. If using the voltage divider R5/R6 to have a +2.5V virtual ground U4B needs that too, otherwise it's +input will fall to virtual -2.5V and will drive it's output to ground and may be into nonlinear operation (if U3 does not supply a +2.5V offset at RO/MO outputs).
Kurt
[Updated on: Wed, 19 August 2020 02:28] Report message to a moderator
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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7919 is a reply to message #7918] |
Thu, 20 August 2020 13:26   |
kman
Messages: 45 Registered: February 2019 Location: Germany
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I've briefly compared theire datasheets, the LMV258 is a general purpose low cost device whilst the MCP6281 has better parameters (and might be therefore more expensive). But it's ok to choose the MCP6281. Both can operate/are specified at/for +5V. As a quick hack I've modified the schematic with gimp to show a possible configuration. Increasing R3/R4 reduces the signal amplitude (coming from U3) at Pin5 of U4B and vice versa. The two 10k create a ~2.5V working point for U4B. I've used this for my Multicomp analog joystick inputs and found that it works very well with a single supply and a non negativ going ground based signal. Nevertheless you should check wether it is usefull for you.
Kurt
[Updated on: Thu, 20 August 2020 13:29] Report message to a moderator
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