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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7539 is a reply to message #7538] Wed, 15 April 2020 23:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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bifo wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 05:36

That's great news, thanks. My Sunrise CF adapter finally arrived and doesn't fit the slot in my old MSX2, so I'm kind of at a loss on how to move forward. I'll hopefully finish the Omega by the end of this month and can experiment with that. Either that, or remove the front of my old MSX2. The slot would fit the cartridge fine, but the design of the Sunrise is frustratingly off-center.
Hello,
I guess you know, but be careful not to insert the cartridge on the opposite (reverse) side. It is strange that it does not enter your MSX slot as you say.
On this page it says how to format the compact flash drive considering that you have a floppy drive.
https://www.msx.org/wiki/Sunrise_Compact_Flash_Card_Interface
If not, below, describe how this can also be done by formatting in FAT16 <32M. I think Windows 7 would do well by formatting a 30Mb partition on FAT16 (for example), but you can also change the partition type using a GNU-Linux computer.
I'm not sure but maybe the CALL FORMAT command is integrated in the NEXTOR BIOS and in that case you could run it from BASIC.
More information in:
https:// www.konamiman.com/msx/nextor/docs/Nextor%202.0%20Getting%20S tarted%20Guide.pdf
Here it mentions to use a Nextor kernel with Sunrise IDE driver.
It also describes how to install it with an emulator, I think you can also install Nextor in the emulator and then simply dump the disk image onto the compact flash card (with some specific software for it).

I hope this helps

MSXmakers
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7540 is a reply to message #7539] Thu, 16 April 2020 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bifo is currently offline  bifo
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Registered: October 2019
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jordi.solis wrote on Wed, 15 April 2020 23:06
bifo wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 05:36

That's great news, thanks. My Sunrise CF adapter finally arrived and doesn't fit the slot in my old MSX2, so I'm kind of at a loss on how to move forward. I'll hopefully finish the Omega by the end of this month and can experiment with that. Either that, or remove the front of my old MSX2. The slot would fit the cartridge fine, but the design of the Sunrise is frustratingly off-center.
Hello,
I guess you know, but be careful not to insert the cartridge on the opposite (reverse) side. It is strange that it does not enter your MSX slot as you say.
On this page it says how to format the compact flash drive considering that you have a floppy drive.
https://www.msx.org/wiki/Sunrise_Compact_Flash_Card_Interfac e
If not, below, describe how this can also be done by formatting in FAT16 <32M. I think Windows 7 would do well by formatting a 30Mb partition on FAT16 (for example), but you can also change the partition type using a GNU-Linux computer.
I'm not sure but maybe the CALL FORMAT command is integrated in the NEXTOR BIOS and in that case you could run it from BASIC.
More information in:
https:// www.konamiman.com/msx/nextor/docs/Nextor%202.0%20Getting%20S tarted%20Guide.pdf
Here it mentions to use a Nextor kernel with Sunrise IDE driver.
It also describes how to install it with an emulator, I think you can also install Nextor in the emulator and then simply dump the disk image onto the compact flash card (with some specific software for it).

I hope this helps

MSXmakers
The MSX2 form factor of my machine is a desktop with detached keyboard, and the cartridge slot is a bit deeper than the normal all-in-one keyboard models. The cartridge is a later revision from the russian groups which has both an IDE port and a CF port, you can see the specifications and pictures here. The left hand side is offset outwards to accommodate a portion of the logic. It should work perfectly in the Omega though, so it isn't without it's uses.

That model MSX2 also has only one cartridge slot, the secondary interface was used for a proprietary expansion port on the back. Once people have finished their Omegas, it might be useful to have some cartridge expander boards/kits available, various designs exist and allow one cartridge port to accommodate 4 carts and given that we'll need FDC, probably CF or SD interface, and FMPACs (possibly also the network cartridge as well) those cartridge slots run out quick.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7541 is a reply to message #7540] Thu, 16 April 2020 10:49 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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bifo wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 12:26

... the secondary interface was used for a proprietary expansion port on the back.
Ok, is not propietary but some manufacturers did it (like my SVI 728). you just need a cable built with...
1 CCE50S-ND slot to ribbon connector
1 50 wires ribbon cable
1 1-1658527-5 standard ribbon header (female).

And so you will have a secondary slot.

MSXmakers ;-)
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7542 is a reply to message #7541] Thu, 16 April 2020 23:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bifo is currently offline  bifo
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jordi.solis wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 10:49
bifo wrote on Thu, 16 April 2020 12:26

... the secondary interface was used for a proprietary expansion port on the back.
Ok, is not propietary but some manufacturers did it (like my SVI 728). you just need a cable built with...
1 CCE50S-ND slot to ribbon connector
1 50 wires ribbon cable
1 1-1658527-5 standard ribbon header (female).

And so you will have a secondary slot.

MSXmakers ;-)
Thanks very much, but according to this page the even <-> odd pins are swapped around. I'm not sure what effect that would have on the slot pinout, if it would just flip it? I was searching for plans on slot expansions a while back and virtually all of them warned strongly that if you got a slot pinout wrong it was very possible to zap your MSX.

EDIT it would appear that the digikey parts 89150-0001 and C1EXS-5036G would be the best combination for mine, since the expansion port guides aren't in the center, in case anyone finds this. The CPC-400 has two guides.

[Updated on: Fri, 17 April 2020 00:31]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7546 is a reply to message #7542] Fri, 17 April 2020 10:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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bifo wrote on Fri, 17 April 2020 08:54

Thanks very much, but according to this page the even <-> odd pins are swapped around. I'm not sure what effect that would have on the slot pinout, if it would just flip it? I was searching for plans on slot expansions a while back and virtually all of them warned strongly that if you got a slot pinout wrong it was very possible to zap your MSX.

EDIT it would appear that the digikey parts 89150-0001 and C1EXS-5036G would be the best combination for mine, since the expansion port guides aren't in the center, in case anyone finds this. The CPC-400 has two guides.
Thanks for checking twice my suggestion, please do not follow it.
if pins are swaped you may fix it or you probably burn your msx. Very Happy

regards.
MSXmakers
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7551 is a reply to message #7531] Sat, 18 April 2020 15:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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Sergey wrote on Wed, 15 April 2020 08:00
I I've updated the make_roms.sh in the GitHub repository. Now it includes the patch to replace the yen sign with the backslash. It also includes the patch for the ROM flags (locations 0x2B and 0x2C) to indicate International rather than Japanese ROM. This can be useful in some cases, but harmful in others. For example some Konami games use these flags to switch between Japanese and English (Vampire Killer, The Treasure Of Usas), while others will not work on non Japanese-machine (Metal Gear).
Hi,
Using the attached script we can have both versions of MSX2+ BIOS and we just can change the language with the same BIOS version.
we can add a switch to do it on the fly.
I have tested it with "the treasure of usas" or "Vampire Killer" on the fly and it works, they change their language chars as soon as the screen is refreshed.
Of course without rebooting Very Happy Very Happy Very Happy

I think it could be a good choice to be able to play all games without changing the firmware chip.

MSXmakers.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7570 is a reply to message #4137] Tue, 28 April 2020 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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Hi Guys,
It seems like the bill of materials for the Omega keyboard has an issue.
the 1x8 leveling kit for the space bar, is longer than should.
I'm talking about the following p/n:
Mouser 540-G99-0226
Anyobody knows the correct cherry part number for the 6.25 long bar?

thank for helping me.

J. S.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7571 is a reply to message #7570] Tue, 28 April 2020 07:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
martin8bity is currently offline  martin8bity
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I do not know if better part exists, but it was quite easy to straighten the bar and make the angle in correct place.

www.8bity.cz

[Updated on: Tue, 28 April 2020 07:32]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7572 is a reply to message #7571] Tue, 28 April 2020 08:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
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I don't think Cherry made 6.25U spacebar stabilizers, at least I can't find the part. They did make 7U ones, but Mouser doesn't have them.
Just as Martin mentioned, it is not difficult to bend and shorten a 8U stabilizer. If I recall correctly the distance between the bends is 100 mm
For my own builds I used a third-party stabilizers from eBay, but that seller doesn't have them any more.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7576 is a reply to message #7572] Tue, 28 April 2020 23:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
borutk is currently offline  borutk
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I used these and they work great:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2x-1-6-25x-Plate-PCB-Mechanical-K eyboard-Cap-Stabilizer-For-Cherry-MX-Switch/173770800977?ssP ageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
It just took a while for the packet to get here from China.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7577 is a reply to message #7576] Wed, 29 April 2020 08:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bifo is currently offline  bifo
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borutk wrote on Tue, 28 April 2020 23:19
I used these and they work great:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/4-2x-1-6-25x-Plate-PCB-Mechanical-K eyboard-Cap-Stabilizer-For-Cherry-MX-Switch/173770800977?ssP ageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
It just took a while for the packet to get here from China.
I bought both stabilizer kits linked in the BOM and the spacebar one was completely useless, but luckily the one for the various other keys which need it (enter, shift, backspace, etc) came with two extra stablizer-things which lock to the board at the end of the spacebar and the other keys through the holes designed into the board.

I do not know what the metal is for, but otherwise the spacebar leveler should probably be removed from the BOM, the metal doesn't fit the spacebar on the keyboard on the ANSI layout at all and the feet don't come with the bottom parts to attach it to the board at all. It's a total waste of money.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7594 is a reply to message #7511] Sun, 03 May 2020 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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Sergey wrote on Mon, 13 April 2020 21:43
jordi.solis wrote on Mon, 13 April 2020 08:51

I ordered few F4-FMPAC boards to be built, so I will be able to test at all if it's working or not.
Keep us posted!
I am building the F4-FMPAC
As I currently don't have the 27c256 chip, I understand that I can add this program to the current OMEGA's firmware chip. But I don't know how to do it. I don't understand the current memory structure inside the firmware chip very well, to know in which order I have to add this binary file to the current script. I only see that the script joins some files and also it leaves some blank spaces but I don't know where I will insert this file so that it matches the original location of an msx2.
(How those 256k fits with the full slot/subslot addressable capacity)

Along with this question, also... , you mentioned that you could change the GAL mapper so that the memory expansion would be in slot 3-0 instead of 3-2. How could I do it?

Again with the FMPAC board, it requires me to take several signals from an empty cartridge. Is that so? This it the only way to use this board?
The signals it requires are SLTSEL and CS1 from an unused slot (connected to CE and OE pins), and also some other signals such as SNDIN, +12, -12, GND that, although they are not required from a slot, are also available there.

Why do I have to lose a slot to have FMPAC? What is the difference using this board with the computers motherboards that already have included it?

Connecting the SLT output to the pin 2 of the opamp (U48) is a possibility. What if I connect there or to soundin? ok, I think you mentioned this to save some components like the op amp on the current FMPAC board.


I have also finished a design for the expanded memory card but I do not quite understand how you would like to connect it. Maybe you mean through a right angle header? As if it were a side extension module?

Thanks for your support.
Regards.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7599 is a reply to message #7594] Mon, 04 May 2020 04:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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jordi.solis wrote on Sun, 03 May 2020 19:23

Again with the FMPAC board, it requires me to take several signals from an empty cartridge. Is that so? This it the only way to use this board?
The signals it requires are SLTSEL and CS1 from an unused slot (connected to CE and OE pins), and also some other signals such as SNDIN, +12, -12, GND that, although they are not required from a slot, are also available there.
Why do I have to lose a slot to have FMPAC? What is the difference using this board with the computers motherboards that already have included it?
Ok, I've got my answer.
tThey are only needed for the EEPROM chip operation.

Thanks for helping me on the rest of questions.

kind regards.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7613 is a reply to message #7599] Wed, 06 May 2020 09:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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Hi again,
pending for components I'm working on modifying the BIOS SPLD as I think is needed.
I have programed the expanded RAM on Subslot 3-0 like most of the msx2+ computers.
Also modified the BIOS files to include the FMMUSIC ROM.
It would be very kind of you (anyone) double checking what I did on the attached files to verify if that should work or letting me know what's wrong.
Best regards.

Jordi Solis
MSXmakers!
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7616 is a reply to message #7613] Fri, 08 May 2020 18:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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I mentioned this a while back, but really just started working on it. I don't have a working Omega at this time, but based on the KiCad files, I have been doing some measurements and planning. This is still a work in progress, and I really just started. But hope to have it ready for a test print in the next few weeks since I'm working in my spare (limited) time. This is nowhere near ready, as it still needs some work on the back for the various ports, and come cosmetic alterations for aesthetics. But I've ironed out the general shape that I was going for, I still need to contour the design... The idea was to emulate a true MSX style case. Critics are welcome share input.

The cone shaped standoffs are designed that way to improve the rigidity of the design. This is a large case (350mm x 230mm x 49mm). Not to mention they provide a little stronger mount for the PCB. I'm designing them for 4mm x 5mm M3 brass inserts. The idea is that the main board will mount in the lower shell, and the keyboard in the upper. It would be nice if there were keyboard plates that would fit this, as it would simplify not only the mounting of the keyboard, but would serve to remove any flex the PCB may end up having.

That said, even my new Core XY printer with a build volume of 330x330x400 is going to need to print these in half. And I'll need to weld them together (I have a plastic filament pen).

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega1.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega2.jpg


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7617 is a reply to message #7616] Fri, 08 May 2020 18:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
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Hi Doug,

That looks really nice.
I think the opening for the joystick ports on the front should be higher up.
Since you'll be splitting the print, it would be nice if the case could be printed on 200 mm x 200 mm bed.
You can refer to my DXF files for dimensions here: https://github.com/skiselev/omega/tree/master/Enclosure
Although the diameter of S-Video opening could be 2 mm larger...

Thanks,
Sergey
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7618 is a reply to message #7617] Fri, 08 May 2020 19:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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Sergey,

Thanks for the input. I plan on posting the files both split, as well as complete, in case anyone wants to modify the design. I'll take a look at the dxf files when I get a moment.

As for joystick ports, there is a cutout underneath to accommodate the ports. The slot you're seeing in the front is minimal to allow the cables to rest underneath. So it won't necessitate a larger opening.

I'm also considering a rotating cover for the cartridge ports, similar to the Casio MX-10, to keep dust out.

It's a work in progress. But I hope to have it a little more refined soon.


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7619 is a reply to message #7618] Sat, 09 May 2020 15:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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Making some additional progress on the case today. Thought I would post some pictures. I'm thinking it would be fitting to have an Ω as a snap in badge. So that once the case is painted, the badge could be painted a different color, then snapped into place...

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega1-1.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega3.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega2-1.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega4.jpg


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7629 is a reply to message #7619] Mon, 11 May 2020 17:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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A little more work, and a few more renderings to see how it's coming along.

I'm planning on uploading two basic versions of this case. One to fit the stock boards. The second will remove the hole for the DC jack, and add a round hole and a square hole for a flush seated screw in DC jack (Lumberg 1614 10) and a rocker switch (11x45mm) for a power switch. This second version will also have mounting brackets for a small PSU (This version is for guys like me that would prefer to have a DC jack in something other than 5v: I'm scared to death of killing a board by plugging in a 12v PSU). Both versions will have a 11x45mm cutout for a rocker switch above the printer port for the ROM select switch. Though, this feature can always be extruded shut if it is not desired, or if you prefer something of a different footprint.

Currently, the standoffs for the keyboard are 8.5mm high, with a case thickness of 2.5mm. This makes the bottom of standard cherry style switch and cap about a hair below the top of the case. It's what sounded good to me, nearly flush with the bottom of the caps. But I'm game for accepting input. Let me know what you think.

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega2-2.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega3-1.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega1-2.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega4-1.jpg


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7642 is a reply to message #7629] Wed, 13 May 2020 16:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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I've reached a point in case design that I'm ready to test print. I've verified all the hole locations for the PCB. So now it's time to see if I've made any bone head mistakes. I do not have enough PLA on hand to print the entire thing, so I've ordered some more. This shouldn't slow me down too much as these prints are going to take a while at the 30mm/s print speed that I'm using. Close to 20hrs a print for the shell halves. There are four of these. So, yeah...it's going to take a while. Individual print size is approximately 175mmx250mm. I've attached a few renderings of the nearly complete design below.

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega1-3.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/omega2-3.jpg



Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7643 is a reply to message #7642] Wed, 13 May 2020 16:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
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Looks great! Good luck with printing!
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7644 is a reply to message #7643] Wed, 13 May 2020 18:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikemac is currently offline  mikemac
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I may have missed the info: what are you using to design the case with? The results look very professional as if you've done this once or twice before.


Mike
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7645 is a reply to message #7644] Wed, 13 May 2020 21:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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mikemac wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 18:09
I may have missed the info: what are you using to design the case with? The results look very professional as if you've done this once or twice before.
Mike, I'm using 123D. As for printing I'm using a Tronxy X5SA, with a 330x330 build plate. Though, I plan on cutting the design files down to a reasonable 200x200 for those with smaller machines. As for having done it before, I have. But not quite this nice. A special machine deserves a special case to put it in. And I wanted this to look like a real MSX.

Also, if you go back through the previous pages of this thread, I posted some pictures of a ZX Spectrum case I did, that has a built in mechanical keyboard. It's not as nice as this, but was my take on what the spectrum might have been like with a mechanical keyboard.


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard

[Updated on: Wed, 13 May 2020 21:28]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7646 is a reply to message #4137] Wed, 13 May 2020 21:56 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bifo is currently offline  bifo
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That case looks fantastic, I especially like the door for the cartridge slots.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7647 is a reply to message #7645] Thu, 14 May 2020 11:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
mikemac is currently offline  mikemac
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jdgabbard wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 21:22
mikemac wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 18:09
I may have missed the info: what are you using to design the case with? The results look very professional as if you've done this once or twice before.
Mike, I'm using 123D.

I wasn't clear but I was asking about the modeling/3D design SW. But I see 123D has been discontinued by Autodesk. So my search for a 3D design package continues.

Thanks for the info.



Mike
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7648 is a reply to message #7647] Thu, 14 May 2020 15:22 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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mikemac wrote on Thu, 14 May 2020 11:08
jdgabbard wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 21:22
mikemac wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 18:09
I may have missed the info: what are you using to design the case with? The results look very professional as if you've done this once or twice before.
Mike, I'm using 123D.
I wasn't clear but I was asking about the modeling/3D design SW. But I see 123D has been discontinued by Autodesk. So my search for a 3D design package continues.

Thanks for the info.

Mike, 123D can still be downloaded. The online portion doesn't work though. So you lose that feature. It's still a powerful package though.


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7649 is a reply to message #7646] Thu, 14 May 2020 15:24 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
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bifo wrote on Wed, 13 May 2020 21:56
That case looks fantastic, I especially like the door for the cartridge slots.

Thanks! I should have the design verified as soon as I can finish printing. After that I'll share the STL files.


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7662 is a reply to message #7649] Mon, 18 May 2020 06:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
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Registered: March 2017
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Hi Guys,
Look at what I fount on ebay:
https:// www.ebay.es/itm/Omega-MSX2-Homebrew-Computer-IC-Kit/11410590 0693?hash=item1a913dde95:g:8O0AAOSw2bReP8n0
In theory is a kit with all chips for the omega at a good price, however, I'm not sure about them.
some of the chips are replaced and, as I far as I know that 74LS can not be mixed with 74HC, I'm not sure about the rest:
Is a AM29F040B a good substitute for the SST39SF040?
what about the rest?
Even if this is not a perfect solution can be a way to get it quite cheap.
Do you agree?
Let me know your comments.


Jordi from MsxMakers
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7663 is a reply to message #7662] Mon, 18 May 2020 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bifo is currently offline  bifo
Messages: 48
Registered: October 2019
Member
As far as I know the only LS chips that are used in the Omega are the 2 for the 74LS07 which are behind HCT chips? I don't think mixing HC and LS will work? The CMOS vs TTL power requirements.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7664 is a reply to message #7663] Mon, 18 May 2020 15:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
bifo wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 14:55
As far as I know the only LS chips that are used in the Omega are the 2 for the 74LS07 which are behind HCT chips? I don't think mixing HC and LS will work? The CMOS vs TTL power requirements.
It is usually OK to mix 74HCT (note the 'T' at the end, it means TTL-compatible) with 74LS. Mixing 74HC with 74LS might be problematic, particularly when connecting 74LS outputs to 74HC inputs.

Nothing to do with power requirements. The incompatibility is because the Vih (logic "high" input voltage) of 74HC (and CMOS in general, but not 74HCT/74AHCT/74ACT) is higher than the Voh (logic "high" output voltage) of the TTL ICs. Therefore when 74LS outputs logic "high", CMOS logic is not guaranteed to read it as "high"... It will be in a gray/invalid area, and sometimes CMOS will read it as "high", other times as "low". It might even oscillate... who knows ;-)

By the way, the recommended cartridge slot buffers are also TTL (74F, but 74LS/74ALS will work too). This is because MSX standard specifies that the cartridge interface should be TTL compatible. I suspect 74HCT/74AHCT would work just as well...

[Updated on: Mon, 18 May 2020 15:09]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7665 is a reply to message #7662] Mon, 18 May 2020 15:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
jordi.solis wrote on Mon, 18 May 2020 06:34
Hi Guys,
Look at what I fount on ebay:
https:// www.ebay.es/itm/Omega-MSX2-Homebrew-Computer-IC-Kit/11410590 0693?hash=item1a913dde95:g:8O0AAOSw2bReP8n0
In theory is a kit with all chips for the omega at a good price, however, I'm not sure about them.
some of the chips are replaced and, as I far as I know that 74LS can not be mixed with 74HC, I'm not sure about the rest:
Is a AM29F040B a good substitute for the SST39SF040?
what about the rest?
Even if this is not a perfect solution can be a way to get it quite cheap.
Do you agree?
Let me know your comments.


Jordi from MsxMakers
AM29F040B is a good replacement for SST39SF040. I think there is a sector size difference, but since we are not programming (yet) Flash ROM in system, it doesn't matter. If we ever support that, the Flash utility will need to take care of the chip differences (not difficult, I've done that for my 8088-based designs).
Using 74HC instead of 74HCT/74AHCT (as the Omega design specifies) might be problematic.

<rant>
I've seen such kits for other projects, including some of my designs. I assume someone in China scans the Internet for interesting designs, and offers "kits" that include whatever ICs they could find.
Generally, I would recommend to avoid buying these kits, or any other components from China, unless these components cannot be purchased through legitimate channels (Mouser, Digikey, Avnet, etc), or local to your country/region suppliers.
There are some philosophical and practical reasons behind this recommendation:
- The components from China are frequently recycled, sometimes relabeled, sometimes faulty
- I'd rather pay money to the original manufacturer. Some manufacturers are willing to help with component availability, e.g. back in 2012 when I designed Zeta SBC, Zilog didn't offer Z84C0020PEG (20MHz CMOS Z80 CPU) parts in single quantities. After buying a batch of the relabeled, and partially defective parts from China, I've contacted Zilog marketing, and they've worked with Mouser to offer the single quantities
- I don't want to support Chinese chip counterfeiting/relabeling industry
- I don't want to support not honest people. You do understand that "New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in the original package" and "Country / Region of Manufacture: Japan" description is a BS. Why not to be honest and specify, old/used/re-manufactured?
</rant>

[Updated on: Mon, 18 May 2020 20:58]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7666 is a reply to message #4137] Mon, 18 May 2020 20:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
Messages: 76
Registered: March 2016
Member
Making some headway on the case. I have the lower printed, and have begun using my 3d printing pen to "weld" it together. Printing the top half now. When this is done, I would highly suggest using rafts. I'm getting warping even with PLA due to the size and the fact that my Core-XY printer is not enclosed. Some eye candy for you.

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/IMG_7929.jpg

http://retrodepot.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/FEA03A6E-403D-4C83-BE27-80A1E031F6B7-5618-0000039B8364E469_file.jpg


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7667 is a reply to message #7666] Mon, 18 May 2020 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
Looks good.
Is it more than 20 cm in depth?
Also, I am wondering if it is possible to make some kind of joint between the plates (something like puzzle joints) so that they would fit better together, and it will be possible to glue them with a regular glue as opposed to the 3D printing pen?
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7668 is a reply to message #7667] Mon, 18 May 2020 21:32 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jdgabbard is currently offline  jdgabbard
Messages: 76
Registered: March 2016
Member
Hey, Sergey.

No, currently the largest size is about 175x190mm. It's going to be hard to make it any smaller without cutting it into a bunch of smaller pieces that are just going to be more difficult to put together and maintain proper alignment.

As for the joints, you could. But in my experience those puzzle type joints don't normally work out as well as a standard straight joint that has been properly epoxied, or "welded" together. I have tried it a few times, and they just don't slice properly, and cause misalignments.

Proper fusion can normally be achieved by screwing the board down to all of the pieces (to align it), then making small tacks with some spare filament and a dedicated soldering iron tip. Once these tacks are in place you can either weld it with a 3d pen, or use epoxy. Then sand smooth, primer, and paint.


Doug Gabbard
Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Website: http://retrodepot.net
z80 TinyBASIC 2.5g: http://retrodepot.net/?p=424
AtariAge Username: jdgabbard
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7671 is a reply to message #7667] Tue, 19 May 2020 06:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
Messages: 119
Registered: March 2017
Senior Member
Sergey wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 05:40

Looks good.
Is it more than 20 cm in depth?
Also, I am wondering if it is possible to make some kind of joint between the plates (something like puzzle joints) so that they would fit better together, and it will be possible to glue them with a regular glue as opposed to the 3D printing pen?
I made it in a previous project. a modular s100 card cage.
I just added a hole and a bar who was just 0.2mm less in its diammeter (Im not sure maybe twice) they just fit and was not possible to disjoint.

you can check it at those files:

[Updated on: Tue, 19 May 2020 06:40]

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Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7672 is a reply to message #7668] Tue, 19 May 2020 06:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
Messages: 119
Registered: March 2017
Senior Member
jdgabbard wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:32
oard down to all of the pieces (to align it), then making small tacks with some spare filament and a dedicated soldering iron tip. Once these tacks are in place you can either weld it with a 3d pen, or use epoxy. Then sand smooth, primer, and paint.
Of course to me, this sounds more aligned, beauty result and clear plan. we can also my do my suggestion leaving more slack between the pieces, to permit alignment, then glue, sand and paint.
Regards.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7673 is a reply to message #7668] Tue, 19 May 2020 06:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jordi.solis is currently offline  jordi.solis
Messages: 119
Registered: March 2017
Senior Member
jdgabbard wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:32

Creator of the G80-S Micro Computer and 'Porter' of TinyBASIC 2.5g
Hi,
another issue.
Is there possible to compile the tinyBASIC for MSX and load it once C-BIOS started?
I know that N8 Home computer is not an MSX standard computer but he has C-BIOS and BASIC, It could be possible to do anything similar with the OMEGA HOME COMPUTER, when using a c-bios firmware?

let me know.
regards.
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7675 is a reply to message #7673] Wed, 20 May 2020 00:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
andrii_kutepov is currently offline  andrii_kutepov
Messages: 29
Registered: November 2015
Junior Member
I ask for help in one matter.
I'm starting the build Omega and don't know if to collect nodes for PAL image output.
I can't make PAL-NTSC modes flexible. Resistor R9 and Cap C91 must be different and soldered for different modes.
How is it done with you?

Thanks
Andrii
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7678 is a reply to message #7675] Wed, 20 May 2020 12:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
Hi Andrii,

The Omega Motherboard is designed to support either NTSC or PAL, but it is not designed to be easily switchable between two.

With that being said, I've used NTSC values for R9 and C91 (20 kOhm and 27 pF respectively) on one of my boards, and it still works with PAL, although NTSC values might negatively impact the output quality.

C91 and L1 are only used for Composite Video output, they should not impact the RGB or S-Video quality. But if you insists on using the right value you can either install a connector (e.g. use pins from machined sockets) for C91, so you can change it if needed, or solder a 18 pF capacitor on the board and when needed connect another 10 pF capacitor in parallel for NTSC operation (e.g. using a jumper or a socket).

For R9 you can use 16 kOhm and 4 kOhm resistors connected in series, so that the resulting resistance is 20 kOhm. For the PAL operation short-circuit the 4 kOhm resistor (e.g using a jumper connected in parallel with that resistor), which will give you 16 kOhm

Thanks,
Sergey
Re: MSX2 Compatible Computer Project [message #7679 is a reply to message #7673] Wed, 20 May 2020 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Sergey is currently offline  Sergey
Messages: 236
Registered: October 2015
Location: Portland, OR
Senior Member
jordi.solis wrote on Tue, 19 May 2020 06:59

Is there possible to compile the tinyBASIC for MSX and load it once C-BIOS started?
I know that N8 Home computer is not an MSX standard computer but he has C-BIOS and BASIC, It could be possible to do anything similar with the OMEGA HOME COMPUTER, when using a c-bios firmware?
I suspect it is possible. But I don't have time or desire to do that at this point ;-)
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