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Public Domain 32000 [message #3240] Wed, 19 July 2017 03:53 Go to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
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Registered: June 2016
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Hi

https://archive.org/download/bitsavers_microCornua32Oct86_11 179272/Micro_Cornucopia_32_Oct86.pdf

http://ftp.berklix.org/~dlr/pd32/

Is anyone interested in new boards for this early computer (AKA "Public Domain 32000" by Dave Rand and George Scolaro) designed to run Unix System V?

It uses an NS32016 chipset. It was described in MICRO CORNUCOPIA, #32, Oct-Nov 1986, magazine

The full article is available on the internet with schematics and description of the software. It runs as a coprocessor on either CP/M or IBM PC/XT clones. For the former, the circuit can be placed in an 8 bit PC/XT ISA slot.

All the parts for the PD32 are still available (Quest, etc. ) and ebay. It appears to be a relatively simple low cost design which would plug into any PC/XT or PC/AT ISA slot. The main chips are the NS32016 CPU, NS32082 MMU, NS32081 FPU, NS32201 TCU, NS32202 ICU, and the DP8419 DRAM controller. All it needs is a PCB to revive this public domain project.

I am thinking to re-implement the design "AS IS" per the 1986 article. It was advertised to run official Unix System V although I think it could realistically run Minix. The Bruce Culbertson NS32016 board had a Minix port for it and it has a similar design so I think it would be a good starting point. Only 2MB of DRAM really limits the options though.

Who is interested in building a "Public Domain 32000" ISA board if it were produced in small hobbyist quantities?

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2024 04:10]

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3241 is a reply to message #3240] Wed, 19 July 2017 11:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yoda is currently offline  yoda
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Hi Andrew!

I would be interested as a standalone system not a PC-AT card. would require more work but I don't have or want to invest in a PC-AT computer.

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3242 is a reply to message #3240] Wed, 19 July 2017 12:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pbirkel is currently offline  pbirkel
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Registered: October 2015
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I'm interested in building one Andrew! I'm partial to the CP/M flavor ...

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3243 is a reply to message #3240] Wed, 19 July 2017 13:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jcoffman is currently offline  jcoffman
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Registered: October 2015
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Having had experience with the Opus 532 board (AT form factor), I would say that a board hosted on a PC is inappropriate today. Today's computes do not have PC bus slots anymore.

A standalone or ECB-compatible board would be much more useful.

--John

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3244 is a reply to message #3240] Wed, 19 July 2017 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dgf1966 is currently offline  dgf1966
Messages: 46
Registered: November 2015
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Hi Andrew,

Over the last couple of weeks since we last spoke I have been modifying the base KiCad design we did for the
Bruce culbertson NS32016 SBC board. I have now got to a point where I am happy with the layout, I thought
I'd mention it here as I was not sure if this is the kind of standalone NS32k board that Dave (yoda) and John
would be interested in.

Attached is a teaser screenshot, Will forward Kicad files for review at weekend to anyone interested.

btw. routing converges in about an hour and after a couple of days it gets down to less than 270 vias.

David Fry

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3245 is a reply to message #3241] Wed, 19 July 2017 17:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
Messages: 1080
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yoda wrote on Wed, 19 July 2017 14:36
Hi Andrew!

I would be interested as a standalone system not a PC-AT card. would require more work but I don't have or want to invest in a PC-AT computer.


Hi Dave
The PD32 works with either a PC/XT/AT or with a CP/M computer. There is a special connector on the board to attach it to a Z80 circuit via a daughterboard.

The PD32 was designed to be very low cost to implement so it has almost no IO so it won't work as a standalone board.

An adapter to ECB would be fairly easy to make with a prototyping board if someone were interested in an ECB system.

The problem is NS32K is an extinct architecture and few people even know about it and fewer still interested in even hobbyist applications. Very narrow audience indeed.

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3259 is a reply to message #3245] Sun, 23 July 2017 11:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tingo is currently offline  tingo
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Registered: February 2017
Location: Oslo, Norway
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The "Z80 connection" looks simple enough. Perhaps the parallel port on many of the RetroBrew Z80 machines could be used?

Torfinn

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3260 is a reply to message #3259] Sun, 23 July 2017 14:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
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Possibly, I don't know. The article indicates it behaves like an IO device although possibly you could use the parallel port.

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #3285 is a reply to message #3260] Sun, 30 July 2017 22:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jcoffman is currently offline  jcoffman
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Registered: October 2015
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For all those interested in the NS32000 series CPUs, I have just posted GCC 3.4.6 for Linux x86_64 systems (Ubuntu 16.04, in my case). The tarball for direct installation is on the Wiki under: software/applications/ns32000-cross.

This is compiler / assembler / loader / librarian only. No big libraries.

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10577 is a reply to message #3285] Tue, 30 January 2024 03:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
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Registered: June 2016
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Hi
The topic of NS32016 as a second processor came up over at the retrocomputing forum

https://retrocomputingforum.com/t/dual-cpu-computers/3902

It piqued my interest, so I dug out my old PD32 revival project and brought the board up to date. I think the PD32 PCB is ready to go. I am going to go over it again comparing to the schematic just to be sure, but it looks really solid.

As mentioned in the thread above, the PD32 can be used in a PC/XT or PC/AT type system but also has a Z80 CPU connector feature. It is fairly generic so I suppose it could be used with most any CPU. I am considering converting the PD32 in to a duodyne board.

Would anyone be interested in a revived, PD32 revival project? NS32016 is long overdue for a retrocomputing project. Here is an interesting article on Hackaday.IO so I am not the only one with this idea.

https://hackaday.io/project/189965-isa-bus-slave-ns32016-pro cessor-board

I'll update this post later with a 3D image render of the latest PCB iteration.

Thanks, Andrew Lynch

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10578 is a reply to message #10577] Tue, 30 January 2024 14:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
tingo is currently offline  tingo
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Registered: February 2017
Location: Oslo, Norway
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Are the necessary chips available?
What can I run on it? (Is software available?)

Torfinn

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2024 05:19] by Moderator

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10579 is a reply to message #10578] Tue, 30 January 2024 14:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
Messages: 1080
Registered: June 2016
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Hi
The chips seem to be available. Mostly at UTSource.net although eBay and others carry them too. Some are easier to find than others though.

The article claims the PD32 can run Unix System V however, I haven't seen an archive with files posted on it. May have to search or ask around to find them.

Thanks, Andrew Lynch

PS, latest 3D render of PD32 board from KiCAD

/forum/index.php?t=getfile&id=2981&private=0
  • Attachment: PD32.jpg
    (Size: 219.98KB, Downloaded 456 times)

[Updated on: Wed, 31 January 2024 05:10]

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10580 is a reply to message #10579] Wed, 31 January 2024 08:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
Messages: 1080
Registered: June 2016
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Hi
If you're interested in NS32K related topics, there is a mailing list here:

http://mailman.berklix.org/mailman/listinfo/pc532

PD32 article at hackaday.io

https://hackaday.io/project/189965-isa-bus-slave-ns32016-pro cessor-board

From hackaday.io:

"https://archive.org/details/ns32k-archive is a rich archive of NS32K material." It is really an understatement. The Mother Lode of NS32K info

Good website on NS32K in general, specifically addresses PD32

http://cpu-ns32k.net/PD32.html

Thanks, Andrew Lynch

[Updated on: Thu, 01 February 2024 12:05]

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10581 is a reply to message #10579] Fri, 02 February 2024 02:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
etchedpixels is currently offline  etchedpixels
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Registered: October 2015
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Older NetBSD would be one option but current NetBSD dropped it due to the state of the toolchain. The big problem with the others will be licensing. The source to Genix exists and is archived. It's probably retargettable and includes compiler sources etc, however it's a mix of BSD code, AT&T derived material and vendor material where at least some of the rights owners are a complete mystery.

I have Fuzix running on MMUless NS32K but that's a very different beast to what you would want to run on a full system with a 532 and MMU.

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10590 is a reply to message #10581] Mon, 05 February 2024 04:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
Messages: 1080
Registered: June 2016
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Hi Alan

Yes, it is a shame that NetBSD dropped support for NS32K but understandable since they are quite rare these days. I am thinking if we can get critical mass on an NS32K project to build what's there (Unix System V, Genix, etc.) and then transition to a free/open-source operating system like Minix.

I see the Bruce Culbertson NS32016 project has drivers and sources for Minix. If we ever get past the point of having working hardware, then we are going to have to address the issue of non-encumbered software. Since a Linux port seems very unlikely and Minix has at least a starting point, it seems (right now) that would be the way to go. However, it is only theoretical until there is hardware available.

Speaking of hardware available, it seems the Hackaday is showing signs of life. Gathering the disparate bits and pieces to do a build. I've sent the schematic and PCB layout files to the other team people. There are 3D renders and BOMs posted and updated parts list. Promising developments.

https://hackaday.io/project/189965-isa-bus-slave-ns32016-pro cessor-board

[Updated on: Mon, 05 February 2024 04:27]

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10599 is a reply to message #10590] Wed, 07 February 2024 00:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edzard is currently offline  edzard
Messages: 64
Registered: August 2019
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Hello Andrew,

Has the PCB been tested (in any kind of form)? Did you make already a batch?

I would like to give it a try.


Best regards,

Edzard

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10600 is a reply to message #10599] Wed, 07 February 2024 03:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lynchaj is currently offline  lynchaj
Messages: 1080
Registered: June 2016
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Hi
No, I do not have a PCB yet although my prototype did complete its trace routing so making Gerbers and getting PCBs would be simple. I am working with the people at the Hackaday PD32 project (linked above) doing an independent scrub of the design to ensure it is as correct as possible. The schematics are old and the NS32K footprint library doesn't seem to have been used a lot so I want to make sure there are no errors in the design before making PCBs to best extent possible.

If you are up for a review of the PD32 schematic and PCB let me know and I will send you the PDF files by email. Thanks, Andrew Lynch

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10602 is a reply to message #10600] Wed, 07 February 2024 03:46 Go to previous messageGo to next message
edzard is currently offline  edzard
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Registered: August 2019
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Hello Andrew,

Yes, please send me the PDF files. I will have a look at them!

Edzard

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Re: Public Domain 32000 [message #10603 is a reply to message #10602] Wed, 07 February 2024 03:50 Go to previous message
edzard is currently offline  edzard
Messages: 64
Registered: August 2019
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I've build a few Micro8088 and XI 8088 systems. Would be cool to run Minix on this card/system!

[Updated on: Wed, 07 February 2024 03:55]

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