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REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3230] Sat, 15 July 2017 09:40 Go to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Ok, I'm starting this thread distinct from the Z280 thread to discuss construction of the REH-ECB-IDE boards designed for use with the REH-CPU280.

The REH-ECB-IDE board's information is attached to this post. The board has several features:
1.) IDE interface.
2.) ECB active terminator network.
3.) Centronics parallel port.

The ECB active terminator is the least well-documented and requires a potentiometer to be adjusted. I'm asking those who receive boards to put their notes in this thread first. I'm sure there will be several. Please note that the BC547 transistor in the TO-92 case has a different pinout that many other NPN small-signal transistors, so be careful substituting.

All of the parts except maybe the GAL20V8 are available from Mouser; I ordered a complete set yesterday. The only part that might be a little tricky is the trimpot P1 that sets the terminator voltage; getting the right hole spacing might be difficult, and I ordered two different ones to see which would fit better. I'm going to have to ask Tilmann about that adjustment, since I didn't find it in a quick read of the IDE manual. Maybe something is in the German manual; Fritz, any advice?


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[Updated on: Sat, 15 July 2017 09:46]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3234 is a reply to message #3230] Sun, 16 July 2017 14:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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I just finished placing orders for the stuff I didn't have on hand. However, I created a complete bill-of-materials using Jameco and Mouser. I am attaching it here in case it is useful.

My only real question is the terminator resistor networks (RN3-RN6). Manual states 220 to 330. I put 330 on my BOM, but am actually procuring 220, 270 and 330. Any thoughts on what is best to use? Maybe I should put them in SIP sockets for now...

-Wayne

  • Attachment: REH-IDE.pdf
    (Size: 346.82KB, Downloaded 630 times)
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3235 is a reply to message #3234] Mon, 17 July 2017 08:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Wayne, the value resistor for an active terminator, from a dim memory from years ago, is determined to a great extent by how many devices are on the bus and its electrical length. I likewise ordered 330 ohm networks; this gives a not-quite-so-stiff termination from the active voltage source, and since I'm using just a 3-slot backplane I might not even need a terminator. But this isn't well-documented in the English manual. I haven't had time to look through the TCJ archive yet to see if anything is mentioned there about this termination, and I haven't emailed Tilmann yet to ask him about it, but I do plan to do that later this week.

EDIT: The ECB active terminator project shows 270 ohm resistors in its network. The resistor is actually supposed to be the characteristic impedance of the transmission line represented by the bus, but due to all the bridge taps on the typical bus the impedance is probably not going to be at the theoretical value, and a value reasonably close will keep the SWR on the line low enough to work ok.

The terminator power voltage should be adjusted probably to somewhere near 2.7V (that's the S-100 standard, and ECB is using the same sort of bus logic that S-100 uses).

Also, Terry identified a good trimpot for this use; Mouser link is here.


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[Updated on: Mon, 17 July 2017 12:06]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3237 is a reply to message #3235] Mon, 17 July 2017 15:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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Looks like the S100 folks also use 270 ohm resistors in their active bus terminator. I would think S100 is the same general idea. Guess I will use 270 for lack of a better idea.

The trimpot that Terry found is the same one I have on the BOM I attached to my previous message. Nice to see two of us came to the same conclusion.

-Wayne
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3264 is a reply to message #3237] Mon, 24 July 2017 12:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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I completed construction on my board and wanted to pass along a few notes that may be helpful. The first one is **very** important!
  1. The REH-IDE board puts +5V out on pin 28 of the IDE interface. This is an old standard. Current CF-IDE adapters bridge pin-28 to ground which will cause a direct short. I smoked one of my +5V traces before I figured this out. I recommend cutting the trace on the REH-IDE board going to pin 28. If Lamar corrects the trace in new boards, then this will not apply to the new boards.
  2. Nothing indicates pin-1 on T1 or T2. I mounted mine "face up" which I believe is corect.
  3. Be careful to observe pin-1 markings on resistor networks. They are not all the same orientation.
  4. D1-4 are spaced too tight to fit individual T1 LEDs. Substitute Dialight 555-4001F (hard to find, but works perfectly).
  5. SW-1 and SW-2 are not documented. Looks like you need to short 1-2 on each of them for normal operation. Alternatively, you can just omit IC15 and not implement the functionality which is not needed.
  6. The mounting holes for CN3 are too small. I clipped some of the mounting connector to make it work.
  7. Stick with Lattice GALs, preferably 15ns. Initial attempts with Atmel GALs resulted in sporadic I/O errors.
  8. Use the exact chip family for each chip as specified in the BOM. Again, may be some timing issues with substitutions.
-Wayne

[Updated on: Thu, 27 July 2017 16:39]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3275 is a reply to message #3264] Wed, 26 July 2017 08:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Thanks for the all the information and notes! I was planning to sit down and build mine this coming weekend, so very timely. What is a reasonable 2N* replacement for the BC547? Hopefully this is not a terribly critical part.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3276 is a reply to message #3275] Wed, 26 July 2017 09:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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What did you use on your CPU280? The same one will work. 2N2222 or equivalent should work, but be extremely careful of the pinout, as BC547 has a CBE footprint. Note that in the case of the 2N2222, which is in a metal TO-18 package, there are two distinct and different plastic TO-92 packages with different part numbers: you have PN2222 and P2N2222; the P2N2222 has a CBE, but the PN2222 has, as I recall, an ECB pinout. BC547 is cheap and plentiful and available new at Mouser, and is known to work fine. Same discussion as we had in the main Z280 thread applies here.... Smile

I'm interested in seeing what the best working terminator voltage and resistance turns out to be, as well as to correct the direct-to-5V connection on pin 28 of the IDE connector.

I'm probably going to initially build my IDE board either without termination altogether or with all term resistors socketed (not all are in resistor network packages; there are a few standalone resistors used for termination). I'm going to be running in a 3-slot mini backplane anyway, and termination might just not be very important in that case.

I've put any additional board orders from PCBcart on-hold until we work through some of the issues that are being experienced, and I have communicated with all of those who either have already paid for a board out of the second batch or have paid for a board that I have already shipped-out; I've told these people (other than Wayne and Terry, who already know) to watch this thread closely for these important construction notes in this thread.


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Bughlt: Sckmud
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[Updated on: Wed, 26 July 2017 09:07]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3277 is a reply to message #3276] Thu, 27 July 2017 13:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Update for 7/27/2017

Wayne and Terry have successful builds. Wayne can elaborate on the results, and on some of the software issues yet to be solved. I have as a to-do an edit of the gerbers to change the signal at pin 28 on the IDE port, and maybe to route power to pin 20 through a jumper. Once those things are done I'll send off for the second batch and start filling orders from the second batch.


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Bughlt: Sckmud
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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3279 is a reply to message #3277] Thu, 27 July 2017 16:38 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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As Lamar said, my REH IDE board is working perfectly at this time. I made a couple updates to the posting above about construction notes, so double check that if you are building a board. The comment about pin-28 will not apply if Lamar modifies the board.

I did notice some odd behavior when I was doing heavy file copy operations. It did not seem to be related to I/O errors, but rather disk buffer corruption of some kind. After cleaning up the disk buffer configuration in GENCPM, this was completely resolved. I am a bit new to CP/M 3, so I am going to spend a little more time making sure that the GENCPM configuration is right, then I will post updated software that is appropriate for IDE enabled systems.

Thanks,

Wayne
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3292 is a reply to message #3279] Wed, 02 August 2017 10:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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I have posted a very minor update to the CPU280 binary distribution zip file on the Wiki. This zip file contains the ROM images for the CPU280 and a couple of bootable disk images. You will find the file listed on the CPU280 Wiki page and is called cpu280-v1.20.2.zip.

This new distribution does not contain any actual code updates, but does include pre-built ROM images and disk images that include the IDE board support. The archive contains two directories. One called "FLOPPY" that has the original floppy only build and one called "FLOPPY+IDE" that contains the floppy & IDE build.

All disk images now include the IDETEST.COM application which is very helpful for testing your IDE board. You will see that the application is in German, but just use Google Translate on the menu and you will be fine.

As noted in my previous post, I updated the GENCPM.DAT configuration file with a slightly different disk buffer configuration. In the end, I am convinced that the prior configuration was also fine. I happen to prefer the new one, but I really don't have any good reference on how to optimize disk buffers for CP/M 3, so YMMV.

As always, a source repository is maintained on GitHub at https://github.com/wwarthen/CPU280.

Thanks,

Wayne
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3311 is a reply to message #3292] Sat, 05 August 2017 14:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Question: Which is pin 1 on SW-1 and SW-2? What function do these serve?

Update: I'm guessing the top pair on each of these need to be jumpered, since the CPU280 will not run unless that's the case.

Also, which PLD fuse map should I be using? Looks like different port addresses are available: 70h, 80h, A0h, F0h and I'm not sure what Wayne's binary build is looking for.

Update: Looks like the BIOS assumes 80h, so I used that JED file to program the GAL.

====

Next steps:

1. Edited system.mac and loader.mac to set IDE to 'true' and rebuilt everything per documentation on a Windows 7 system.
2. Converted IMG to HFE and setup the new image as A:
3. Booted new ZPM3 master.
4. It announces that H:-K are IDE volumes, but it cannot access any of these (hangs)
5. Reboot. Run IDETEST. It is able to read parameters back from the 128M solid-state drive I'm using.
6. Set those parameters using option 1.
7. All the various tests, including write/read appear to run without complaint.

At this point, the lights are on but no one is home since I cannot format or access the hard disk volumes. I'm guessing that I may need to program a new pair of system ROMs to use the new loader (?Wink. Off to try that next.

[Updated on: Sun, 06 August 2017 08:28]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3317 is a reply to message #3311] Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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I programmed a new pair of EPROMs using odd/even from the IDE build. Doesn't seem to have affected anything one way or the other.

I did discover that the 'diskinfo' program sees h,i,j,k as 9 or 10 MB volumes, which agrees with the boot message about a "42 MB" hard disk being attached. All of the volumes are reported as full since the directories are not initialized. I have not been able to find a utility to clear them to E5, but by using 'erase' I opened up enough space in h0: to copy files to it and verify that it's working as block storage. That's certainly a good step in the right direction.

A few things I could use guidance on:

1. How do I reconfigure ZPM3 to accept 'h:' as a valid drive? The drive map is ABCDE---IJK in the Z-System parameters.
2. What is the correct approach to setting up hard disk partitioning? It's assuming a 42MB hard disk and enforcing built-in partitioning.
3. How do I initialize directories?
4. Is it possible to assign hard disk partitions to A,B, etc. and boot from them?
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3321 is a reply to message #3311] Sun, 06 August 2017 13:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 14:11
Question: Which is pin 1 on SW-1 and SW-2? What function do these serve?

Update: I'm guessing the top pair on each of these need to be jumpered, since the CPU280 will not run unless that's the case.


SW1 asserts /NMI on the ECB BUS. In theory, this is a way to break to a debugger, but I have not tried to make that work. SW2 asserts /RESIN on the ECB BUS and when activated will reset the CPU and restart the system. As you surmised, both switches should have pins 1-2 shorted for normal operation. Based on the design, you would normally connect SW1 and SW2 to a momentary SPDT toggle such that "depressing" the toggle would assert either /RESIN or /NMI on the bus. In my case, I simply put 3 pin headers on the PCB at each location and jumpered pins 1-2 for now. If I ever wanted to, I could bring those headers to appropriate toggle switches.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 14:11
Also, which PLD fuse map should I be using? Looks like different port addresses are available: 70h, 80h, A0h, F0h and I'm not sure what Wayne's binary build is looking for.

Update: Looks like the BIOS assumes 80h, so I used that JED file to program the GAL.


You are correct that 80h seems to be the default base I/O address. That is indeed the base port in the code. I have done nothing to modify the code, so use 80h unless you modify the code yourself.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sat, 05 August 2017 14:11
1. Edited system.mac and loader.mac to set IDE to 'true' and rebuilt everything per documentation on a Windows 7 system.
2. Converted IMG to HFE and setup the new image as A:
3. Booted new ZPM3 master.
4. It announces that H:-K are IDE volumes, but it cannot access any of these (hangs)
5. Reboot. Run IDETEST. It is able to read parameters back from the 128M solid-state drive I'm using.
6. Set those parameters using option 1.
7. All the various tests, including write/read appear to run without complaint.


The good news is that IDETEST is working well for you, so you are probably in good shape. No IDE disk format program was ever produced for this system. Tilmann's documentation suggests using DU.COM to fill the directory area with E5h which is what I did with good results.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3322 is a reply to message #3317] Sun, 06 August 2017 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
I programmed a new pair of EPROMs using odd/even from the IDE build. Doesn't seem to have affected anything one way or the other.


In theory, the new ROMs (with IDE support) should allow you to start CP/M directly from the ROM (Boot Drive=Q in setup) and have access to the IDE drive letters H:-K:. Looks like you have been booting from a floppy and since you added IDE support to the floppy, then that will work fine. Updating the ROMs just allows the faster boot directly from ROM. Note that booting directly from ROM means using CP/M 3, not ZPM3. ZPM3 cannot be imbedded directly in the ROM.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
I did discover that the 'diskinfo' program sees h,i,j,k as 9 or 10 MB volumes, which agrees with the boot message about a "42 MB" hard disk being attached. All of the volumes are reported as full since the directories are not initialized. I have not been able to find a utility to clear them to E5, but by using 'erase' I opened up enough space in h0: to copy files to it and verify that it's working as block storage. That's certainly a good step in the right direction.


Would likely work better to use DU.COM to fill the directory blocks with E5h. The erase command is going to leave a lot of garbage out there. I guess it shouldn't matter, but I have seen odd behavior in the past if the directory area is not properly filled.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
1. How do I reconfigure ZPM3 to accept 'h:' as a valid drive? The drive map is ABCDE---IJK in the Z-System parameters.


I assume you are looking at the Z3 drive map as displayed by the ZSHOW command. I had not looked at this before, but mine is "ABC---GHIJK---OP" which is different than yours, but just as wrong. Other Z3 OS variants setup the drive map via code customization as part of the build, but there is no way to build ZPM3, you just link it with the CP/M 3 "bnkbdos3.spr" file which should have the correct drive mapping. So... I have no idea what ZPM3 is doing or how to change it. Regardless of the drive map displayed, I am not having any issues accessing all of the drives that should be there (A-E,H-K). Are you saying you are unable to access H:? Best way to test it is with DU because DU does not care about directory contents.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
2. What is the correct approach to setting up hard disk partitioning?It's assuming a 42MB hard disk and enforcing built-in partitioning.


Partitioning is built into the code in the "hard.280" source file.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
3. How do I initialize directories?


I know it is not a happy answer, but use DU to fill the directory blocks with E5h.

snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 09:45
4. Is it possible to assign hard disk partitions to A,B, etc. and boot from them?


Yes, but you would need to change the drive layout in the CP/M build itself. This is well documented in the CP/M 3 manual, but is not a simple configuration change.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3323 is a reply to message #3322] Sun, 06 August 2017 14:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Unfortunately I cannot figure out how to do block fill over a range with du. There's a 'ch' (change) command, but it won't accept ranges beyond 0-7fh. I need 0-0ffffh. Am I misunderstanding the units?
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3324 is a reply to message #3323] Sun, 06 August 2017 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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The drive map issue affects all Z utilities that I've tried. For example, 'zxd' does not believe that disk h: exists, nor do 'zfiler', etc. The non-Z3 utilities (e.g. pip, set, etc.Wink all work fine.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3325 is a reply to message #3323] Sun, 06 August 2017 14:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 14:16
Unfortunately I cannot figure out how to do block fill over a range with du. There's a 'ch' (change) command, but it won't accept ranges beyond 0-7fh. I need 0-0ffffh. Am I misunderstanding the units?


Yeah, that took me a little while to figure out as well. Sorry I didn't provide more detail in my previous message.

Something like this works for me:

A>du

DISK UTILITY v89
Universal Version under CP/M 3.1

Type ? for help
Type X to exit

:lk

:t0
G=0000:00, T=0, S=1, PS=0

:s1
G=0000:00, T=0, S=1, PS=0

:ch00-7f,e5
004455202020202020434F4D0000003C...
:<

:w

:+;>;w;/
G=0000:01, T=0, S=2, PS=0
G=0000:02, T=0, S=3, PS=0
G=0000:03, T=0, S=4, PS=0
G=0000:04, T=0, S=5, PS=1
G=0000:05, T=0, S=6, PS=1
G=0000:06, T=0, S=7, PS=1
G=0000:07, T=0, S=8, PS=1
G=0000:08, T=0, S=9, PS=2
G=0000:09, T=0, S=10, PS=2
G=0000:0A, T=0, S=11, PS=2
G=0000:0B, T=0, S=12, PS=2
G=0000:0C, T=0, S=13, PS=3
G=0000:0D, T=0, S=14, PS=3
G=0000:0E, T=0, S=15, PS=3
G=0000:0F, T=0, S=16, PS=3
G=0000:10, T=0, S=17, PS=4
G=0000:11, T=0, S=18, PS=4
G=0000:12, T=0, S=19, PS=4
G=0000:13, T=0, S=20, PS=4
G=0000:14, T=0, S=21, PS=5
G=0000:15, T=0, S=22, PS=5
G=0000:16, T=0, S=23, PS=5
G=0000:17, T=0, S=24, PS=5
G=0000:18, T=0, S=25, PS=6
G=0000:19, T=0, S=26, PS=6
G=0000:1A, T=0, S=27, PS=6
G=0000:1B, T=0, S=28, PS=6
G=0000:1C, T=0, S=29, PS=7
G=0000:1D, T=0, S=30, PS=7
G=0000:1E, T=0, S=31, PS=7
G=0000:1F, T=0, S=32, PS=7
G=0001:00, T=0, S=33, PS=8
G=0001:01, T=0, S=34, PS=8
G=0001:02, T=0, S=35, PS=8
G=0001:03, T=0, S=36, PS=8
G=0001:04, T=0, S=37, PS=9
G=0001:05, T=0, S=38, PS=9
G=0001:06, T=0, S=39, PS=9
G=0001:07, T=0, S=40, PS=9
G=0001:08, T=0, S=41, PS=10
G=0001:09, T=0, S=42, PS=10
G=0001:0A, T=0, S=43, PS=10
G=0001:0B, T=0, S=44, PS=10
G=0001:0C, T=0, S=45, PS=11
G=0001:0D, T=0, S=46, PS=11
G=0001:0E, T=0, S=47, PS=11
G=0001:0F, T=0, S=48, PS=11
G=0001:10^C
:x


"lk" logs into drive K:
"t0" selects track 0
"s1" selects sector 1
"ch00-7F,e5" fills the block buffer with E5h
"<" saves the block contents to a temp area
"w" writes the block to the current block (first block is now filled)
"+;>;w;/" is a stacked command to move to "next" block, recover the saved block of E5s, write it, and repeat indefinitely

At this point sequential blocks are filled until you press ^C to stop it. Just let it run for a while and then press ^C to stop it and use "x" command to exit. Probably let it run longer than my example, you want to get all the blocks that are part of the directory area.

After you exit, probably best to press ^C at the command prompt to force a warm start of the OS.

Hope this helps.


Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3326 is a reply to message #3324] Sun, 06 August 2017 14:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 14:18
The drive map issue affects all Z utilities that I've tried. For example, 'zxd' does not believe that disk h: exists, nor do 'zfiler', etc. The non-Z3 utilities (e.g. pip, set, etc.Wink all work fine.

Yup, I just confirmed this on my system using ZXD. I had not previously noticed this because my drive map happens to include essentially all drives I use including H:.

I have no solution for this. FWIW, after reading various documents on the CPU280, Tilmann clearly struggled to get ZPM3 to work and seemed to indicate that it still had some significant issues that were never resolved because the author of ZPM3 fell off the map. I had come to the conclusion that I would use CP/M 3 and pursue Z3PLUS some day. Z3PLUS has a relatively automated installation process that should work easily.

If you want to pursue it, I am under the impression that the file "zinstal.zpm" includes the Z3 environment block that is loaded at startup. Reading through the ZPM3 author's documentation, he only indicates a way to change the CPU MHZ, max drive, and max user number -- none of which are useful in this case. Perhaps you can tweak the Z3ENV record that is part of "zinstal.zpm". However, I cannot explain why I am getting a different drive map than you are.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3327 is a reply to message #3326] Sun, 06 August 2017 15:17 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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I have it working now! I was able to define 4 x 31.25 MB partitions on the SSD by editing the sources. Then I used the recipe you provided above (found it simultaneously after unearthing du.doc from the Walnut Creek ISO) with '/512' to initialize the directory. My definition used 2048 entries, so that's 2048 x 32 = 65536 bytes or 512 x 128 byte logical sectors.

So, I guess I'm an official member of the "I have a working IDE adapter on my CPU280" club Smile.

Is there any way to define the hard disks as, e.g. A,B,C,D and boot directly? Would be most convenient to have the system drive be a hard disk volume.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3328 is a reply to message #3327] Sun, 06 August 2017 15:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 15:17
Is there any way to define the hard disks as, e.g. A,B,C,D and boot directly? Would be most convenient to have the system drive be a hard disk volume.


Sure, just modify the drive table in kernel.280.

Note that it is not necessary to rearrange the drive letters to boot from a hard drive if you are booting CP/M 3. With CP/M 3, you can just set the desired hard drive letter (i.e., H:) as your boot drive and it will boot from that with no issues. Unfortunately, if you want to boot ZPM3 from a hard drive, it is necessary to make the boot drive show up as drive A:. That seems to be a requirement of ZPM3.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3330 is a reply to message #3328] Sun, 06 August 2017 16:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Yes, I was a bit confused trying to follow Tillman's directions. He refers to a SYSTEM.LIB file that I'm not able to locate in the sources from Github. Did that get moved to kernel.280?
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3331 is a reply to message #3330] Sun, 06 August 2017 16:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Sun, 06 August 2017 16:31
Yes, I was a bit confused trying to follow Tillman's directions. He refers to a SYSTEM.LIB file that I'm not able to locate in the sources from Github. Did that get moved to kernel.280?

No, "system.lib" and "loader.lib" were renamed to "system.mac" and "loader.mac" for compatibility with the assembler being used in the build. Note that neither "system.mac" nor "loader.mac" have options to change the order/assignment of drives -- they only allow you to specify whether certain features (like IDE) are included. To change the order of the drive letters in the drive map, you must modify the drive map code in kernel.280.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3334 is a reply to message #3331] Mon, 07 August 2017 08:42 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Ah, ok. So the BIOS will assign drive letters as a function of the physical table positions in kernel.280?
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3335 is a reply to message #3334] Mon, 07 August 2017 13:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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snhirsch_gmail.com wrote on Mon, 07 August 2017 08:42
Ah, ok. So the BIOS will assign drive letters as a function of the physical table positions in kernel.280?


Exactly.
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3344 is a reply to message #3335] Wed, 09 August 2017 07:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Wayne, thanks for fielding this. Steven, glad it's working; one of the attractions of the CPU280 for me is that it is a work-in-progress interrupted (pseudo-Latin: workus interruptus?) in the mid-90's with the Z280 cancellation. Bugs in the Z280 chip itself are the biggest stumbling-blocks, and the fact that the CPU280 is using the Z-BUS mode with all of the accelerators turned on complicates it further. It's possible that turning off burst mode and turning off caching together could stabilize certain things, but the correspondence I have received from Scott Moore (I don't yet have full permission to publish this, but you are of course free to contact him yourself) indicates that there are several problems that haven't yet been found. That's also, to me at least, part of the attraction of the Z280.

There are at least two efforts to build software emulations of the CPU280 and the IDE subsystem; hardware to use as compatibility standards is required for this, and the emulation can be made to not emulate the known bugs, showing what the Z280 really could have been.

Now, for a short status report. I still have one available IDE board from the first run if anyone wants it, and I have enough parts and boards for one more CPU280 board+hard-to-find parts+programmed EPROMs/GALs kit. It will be early September before I will be able to have time to get the second run of IDE boards made, with a few corrections to the design the Wayne has identified, assuming that I am able to edit the design from the gerbers. My time until the week of August 21st is right now almost totally consumed with preparations for my $dayjob for the solar eclipse event we're hosting. So I'm reading the posts in this and the other thread, but please understand my delay in being able to participate right now.


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[Updated on: Wed, 09 August 2017 07:03]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3345 is a reply to message #3344] Wed, 09 August 2017 07:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
snhirsch_gmail.com is currently offline  snhirsch_gmail.com
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Hi, Lamar. I wanted to publicly thank you for your efforts in bringing this project back to life. I badly wanted a Z280 system to play with "back in the day". At one point in the 80s, I bartered for a Kaypro 10 in anticipation of the promised 280 based upgrade board. Later on I lusted after the Reh CPU280, but could not afford it.

It has been fun, challenging and educational to bring up the CPU280 and IDE boards. I'm really looking forward to getting Uzi280 up and running.

Is there a possibility that Scott Moore would authorize release of a mutually edited set of notes? I assume he is (or was) under some sort of non-disclosure agreement with Zilog, but perhaps they can be convinced to cooperate? I'm particularly interested in knowing if Scott has any of the software tools mentioned in the Zedux press releases. Or, were these all vaporware?
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3441 is a reply to message #3345] Mon, 11 September 2017 12:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Update, 9/11/2017

Tilmann sent me Eagle files for the IDE board a couple of weeks ago, and I am in the process of looking at them and generating new gerbers with the modifications. While I'm still learning how to go about doing that, I'd like to ask the group which way the 5V issue should be resolved: pull-up to 5V through a resistor, or left open?

I hope to get a second run manufactured in a couple of weeks.


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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3443 is a reply to message #3441] Mon, 11 September 2017 16:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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lowen wrote on Mon, 11 September 2017 12:07
I'd like to ask the group which way the 5V issue should be resolved: pull-up to 5V through a resistor, or left open?.


According to the ATA spec, pin 28 should be tied to ground (at the host) when used for cable select (CSEL). The spec allows for pin 28 to be used alternatively as spindle sync (SPSYNC), but I have never seen this done. All of the IDE interfaces used throughout RetroBrew Computers seem to ground pin 28 without issues.

I suggest grounding pin 28. If you want to be extra cautious, you could fit a jumper that would allow selecting between floating and grounded.

Thanks,

Wayne
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3444 is a reply to message #3443] Tue, 12 September 2017 11:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Thanks, Wayne. While a jumper would be a nice-to-have, it seems like grounding it would be the most standard thing to do. I'll try to do the jumper, but at the least will do the grounding.

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3445 is a reply to message #3230] Tue, 12 September 2017 11:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Andrew B is currently offline  Andrew B
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Would it be possible to add a jumper to optionally apply +5V to Pin 20?

The "standard" CF->IDE adapter ( https://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CF-IDE-Connects-3-5-Inch-Inte rface/dp/B000YUMLPI) supports being powered this way.

[Updated on: Tue, 12 September 2017 11:17]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3454 is a reply to message #3445] Thu, 14 September 2017 08:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Wayne W is currently offline  Wayne W
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Andrew B wrote on Tue, 12 September 2017 11:16
Would it be possible to add a jumper to optionally apply +5V to Pin 20?.


I also believe that having +5V to pin 20 is very desirable (I patched my current board to achieve this). If possible, this should really be a jumper option. More important to have a jumper for this one than the pin 28 ground connection.

-Wayne
Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #3462 is a reply to message #3454] Fri, 15 September 2017 06:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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Ok, I'll look at how difficult this will be. I'm excited to dig in at this level; now to make the time to do it.

UPDATE: Got Eagle running on my CentOS 7 box. Have the IDE .BRD loaded in it (the latest 8.3.2 Free version won't work; you have to purchase the Standard version to get 100x160mm boards to load; I purchased a one year subscription (!!) to Standard, and will actively be looking at getting the layouts into Kicad if possible). I was a little worried that I wouldn't be able to load the IDE board's layout since the outlines for the centronics and DIN 41612 connectors overhang the area allowed in Standard, but I do have it loaded. The first modification will be easy, since pins 26 and 30 are both grounded, so a quick delete of the Vcc trace to 28 and adding a short trace between either 26 or 30 and 28 is easy. A good first edit to try. The second modification will be a little more involved, but it looks like there's enough space for a jumper block between traces in the area between T1 and the IDE connector, and there is Vcc available nearby on a trace going to IC10; two additional vias, two pads, and silkscreen for the jumper should make that happen.


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[Updated on: Fri, 15 September 2017 11:25]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #4649 is a reply to message #3462] Tue, 24 April 2018 11:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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UPDATE for April 24th, 2018.

I'm not going to make any excuses, but I will apologize for just plain dropping the ball on this. I have the layout in Eagle right now and have deleted the Vcc trace to pin 28, and am preparing to do some other edits if Eagle will let me (I can't copy-paste a jumper, for instance, as it tells me that part of the board is outside the licensed area and I need to upgrade the license; I was able to remove the Vcc trace and add a GND trace to pin 28, though). Regardless of whether I get the Vcc jumper done or not today, I am planning to submit a board order to PCBcart this afternoon; I'm not going to let a lack of a jumper hold me up today.

EDIT: Ok, boards ordered, but no Vcc to pin 20 jumper, sorry. It seems I would need to make some fairly substantial edits and moves to get the board inside the area for the 'Standard' Eagle 8.x, and I don't have time today to do all of that, and this is the one day I've had recently where I could put the time into it.....

As a bonus, though, I have ordered a third run of CPU280 boards, which I had planned to do anyway when ordering the second IDE run to save on shipping (just an additional $6 on top of the base $35 charge). We'll see how PCBcart likes my gerbers that I generated (never had issue with Tilmann's gerbers, but, well, those were generated by Tilmann and not by me, and he does this on a much more frequent basis than I do!).


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[Updated on: Tue, 24 April 2018 12:46]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #4678 is a reply to message #4649] Thu, 03 May 2018 07:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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UPDATE for May 3, 2018. The boards have shipped from PCBcart. Once I have them in-hand and verify the small changes I made against my one remaining first-run board, I'll either ship them out to those who have already paid or I'll have to re-order (for the sake of time I'll re-order the first-run board and hand-modify each one prior to shipping out).

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #4683 is a reply to message #4678] Mon, 07 May 2018 14:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
lowen is currently offline  lowen
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UPDATE for May 7, 2018

Ok, the boards have arrived, and except for a small issue they look good. I used CAM files from Sparkfun to generate the gerbers, and I neglected to double-check the silkscreen gerbers (I was focused on the changed traces). The silkscreen has the parts outlines, but no labels. This is closer to what Tilmann actually produced, as the original run in the early 90's had no silkscreening. The boards should work fine, and in lieu of the silkscreen printing, I'll include a paper parts layout with each board sent. I'll correct my gerbers for a third run, if there is enough interest, and after all of the second run boards are sold.

I also now have a third run of CPU280 boards available.

EDIT:

Oh, forgot to mention: I'm taking orders for the eight remaining boards in the second run of the IDE board. Two had pre-paid, and I'm shipping those out. One will go out tomorrow; the other will go out as soon as I replenish my supply of EPROMs (it was another order of a hard-to-find and programmed parts kit with a CPU280 board and a second-run IDE board). So I have eight available, $25 each. If they sell quickly and there's still interest I'll do the third run with the corrected silkscreen gerbers (I just did the corrections and checked the gerbers, although I'll triple-check before send to manufacturing this time!). A ZIP of the updated gerbers is attached for completeness, and if anyone wants to check them.


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[Updated on: Mon, 07 May 2018 15:30]

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Re: REH-ECB-IDE Construction thread. [message #4742 is a reply to message #4683] Thu, 07 June 2018 05:21 Go to previous message
fritzeflink is currently offline  fritzeflink
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I didn't read this threat in the past but fall into yesterday.

Someone told he couldn't 'format' the hd partitions.
As I had a short information in german language at oldcomputers
http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/rechner/zilog/z280 /my_old_Z280/format_idehd.txt
here below is a translation.


I used du34 for that and it workes well (DU3x)

Initialize the directories with E5
then I use badbloc.com for mark bad sectors

Execute the following commands with DU3x:

Within the drive H: I: J: or K:
put on Track0 Sector 1.

Herewith:

du34> lp; drive select
g0; read group (T1S1)
CH00-7F E5, w, r, d, + 1 * FF


the data in the Sector buffer is changed to E5 (CH00-7F), written (W)
, read (R), displayed (D), read the next sector (+1) and with * FF repeated 255 times.


###############

Link: http://oldcomputers.dyndns.org/public/pub/cdrom/Walnut_Creek _CDROM/jsage/znode3/z3new/du35.lbr

and added decompressed in the du.7z and I did just a working test.

  • Attachment: du3x.pdf
    (Size: 189.72KB, Downloaded 435 times)
  • Attachment: du35.7z
    (Size: 83.70KB, Downloaded 378 times)
  • Attachment: Just_in_time_test.jpg
    (Size: 541.67KB, Downloaded 363 times)


/*-----
fritz
-----*/

[Updated on: Thu, 07 June 2018 05:33]

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